Message from @Monstrous Moonshine

Discord ID: 691840681748201472


2020-03-24 02:38:06 UTC  

We say that something that is 99.9999999% probably true is true not because it is known to be true but because it's practical

2020-03-24 02:38:24 UTC  

Exactly.

2020-03-24 02:38:41 UTC  

True science does not have an endpoint. It keeps evolving according to new information. A true scientist would never dare to say that something is 100% guaranteed.

2020-03-24 02:39:09 UTC  

Because that would require godlike knowledge.

2020-03-24 02:40:42 UTC  

Science is about prediction, not proof. Currently accepted scientific models are only the best possible approximations of reality, inferred through evidence from experiments.

2020-03-24 02:41:10 UTC  

Science is not about proof, but if proof is **literally impossible** then it's not scientific.

2020-03-24 02:43:26 UTC  

I'd say if falsifiability is impossible then it is not scientific

2020-03-24 02:43:34 UTC  

That's the same thing.

2020-03-24 02:44:00 UTC  

How so? Proof exists in closed logical systems, not in science.

2020-03-24 02:44:06 UTC  

...

2020-03-24 02:44:28 UTC  

Who told you proof is not a thing in science?

2020-03-24 02:44:32 UTC  

Also Phad, every instance of 'it's' in your first section is the wrong one

2020-03-24 02:45:03 UTC  

Here's a PHD's clarification on this

2020-03-24 02:45:41 UTC  

"To prove" something is to arrive at a logical conclusion from initial axioms

2020-03-24 02:45:51 UTC  

Proof is not about 100% certainty

2020-03-24 02:46:13 UTC  

So you can prove, within a theoretical model, that something is true. But you don't know if that theoretical model is accurate representation of reality.

2020-03-24 02:46:29 UTC  

Proof is information that is so definitively and obviously correct that it'd be ludicrous to contest it. Like 1+1=2

2020-03-24 02:46:41 UTC  

"As a sentience becomes "more" evolved it's birthrates shrink"
should be
"As a sentience becomes "more" evolved **its** birthrates shrink"
@phadreus

2020-03-24 02:47:33 UTC  

I'm using "Proof" as it is used in logic, not colloquial meaning

2020-03-24 02:48:31 UTC  

If you can't prove something, then you can't falsify it either

2020-03-24 02:48:55 UTC  

This is philosophy 101
That's why we make a clear distinction between philosophy and math for example

2020-03-24 02:49:39 UTC  

That's why so many philosophers are bullshitters, because they can just claim literally anything and call themselves smart

2020-03-24 02:50:32 UTC  

Gravity is real, it's been proven. You don't require 100% certainty that it works to consider it proven. 100% certainty **does not exist for anything**

2020-03-24 02:51:00 UTC  

The only thing we need to know is that gravity, so far, has always worked pretty much exactly as we would predict.

2020-03-24 02:51:35 UTC  

Only a philosophizing bullshitter would deny that and come up with some metaphysical nonsense to contest it.

2020-03-24 02:52:09 UTC  

Maybe one day gravity will fail to work as we predict, and it'll be spectacular and exciting. Until that day **it counts as proven.**

2020-03-24 02:55:27 UTC  

I agree with all that, the difference is just semantics. Difference between a Mathematical proof and theoretical models in physics is that once proven, Mathematical results won't ever fail.

2020-03-24 02:56:02 UTC  

Every single model we create to describe reality can fail, that's the whole point of science

2020-03-24 02:56:31 UTC  

Nothing is ever 100%, so saying "proof is not 100%" is like saying the sun rises every day

2020-03-24 02:57:15 UTC  

Mathematical results can, hypothetically, fail. Because anything and everything can fail.

2020-03-24 02:57:49 UTC  

I just wouldn't bet on it, that's all.

2020-03-24 02:58:00 UTC  

Again, we're using two different definitions of proof. How can Mathematical results fail though?

2020-03-24 02:58:31 UTC  

Because literally every model we created to describe the world has been created by us. By fallible beings.

2020-03-24 02:58:50 UTC  

There is no way that we can 100% sure about anything.

2020-03-24 02:59:09 UTC  

Pure Mathematics as an independent subject isn't used to describe the world.

2020-03-24 02:59:37 UTC  

All mathematical systems do have minor blindspots to them

2020-03-24 02:59:50 UTC  

We can only understand mathematics through our subjective mind. As long as that is the case, we can misunderstand all or any of mathematics.

2020-03-24 03:00:15 UTC  

That is philosophy 101. Nothing is truly knowable.