the russian bot thing is an attempt to just dismiss one side of an argument. the NPC meme is designed to criticize a lack of original thought.

it isn't about getting it into their heads, they are a cult..we argue to convince the sane undecided folks.

@Grenade123 I thin kthere a re differences, but at bottom both are really about the claims of one side or the other being insincere

not really

In one case as propaganda, in the other as groupthink

does that mean they are insincere?

you could say they both are designed to criticize lack of original thought maybe

@ryuplaneswalker I worry sometimes that this way of thinking promotes division

All signs, from my viewpoint, point in that direction

That is, the cult-like aspect

But I almost feel like I understand actual cults better

Like, I can put myself into the position of a cult member and kind of understand why they end up where they do

Well the alt left is a cult.

Division is an important part of human identity.

It's just where we stress the importantce of different divides that can cause harm.

The Alt Left is just the Religious Right that replaces god with Social Justice.

As a member of the religious right, I take umbrage.

@Grenade123 I'd say groupthink is insincere in that the implication is that if the herd changes so do your thoughts

eh

Like, _you_ don't actually believe those things yourself

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i think the problem is that people DO believe it

The npc meme?

they just don't know why

By not reasoning through their beliefs, they are not being effective people, so it is definitely a harsh criticism.

there are religious people who don't know why they believe, they just do. I do not doubt their sincerity in their statements on the matter

You mean like when they chant but will shrink when given the licrophone

Hm, I see

even if i believe, to an extent, their belief stems from the same herd/groupthink/indoctrination stuff

if that makes sense

I think this is a semantic difference

Sure, they're sincere, but they're also not thinking critically.

100% semantic

I think religious people are sincere in that, normally, they ground something in faith or some kind of experience they've had, etc

These may be flimsy ground, sometimes flexible, but it has a base somewhere

Or they trust someone. Like a pastor or relligious leader

Eventually you've just hit an axiom

Yeah, I'd class that as faith @GingaBomber

I think in relligion trust is a larger factor than faith

You grow up with christian parents that treat you well. So you trust them based on the factor you consider most prominent