Message from @Eno_

Discord ID: 554339788598018059


2019-03-10 14:30:45 UTC  

It could then be free to raise interest rates and reduce/call in loans later when growth is restored

2019-03-10 15:00:05 UTC  

i am not sure the negative effects of having this "free" money would be outweighed by the good

2019-03-10 15:00:21 UTC  

we can see for instance minimum wage is almost useless

2019-03-10 15:00:28 UTC  

and at worst a job killer

2019-03-10 15:00:54 UTC  

i would like socialism to work, but i don't think it does

2019-03-10 15:14:36 UTC  

that said i do think a social safety net is required but i would like to see it minimized/reformed

2019-03-10 15:44:40 UTC  

The negative effects would be mostly inflation, so it would have to be limited during times of higher inflation

2019-03-10 16:00:02 UTC  

i think the burden is on the proponents of this to prove it will work. we have seen time and time again socialism destroy countries. ubi has never been tested on a mass-scale for long periods. the study in finland was unable to show their hypothesis was true

2019-03-10 16:01:33 UTC  

i do not want america to be the guinea pig, if other countries want to try it, in europe, go for it

2019-03-10 16:01:49 UTC  

and we need to reform welfare laws now

2019-03-10 16:02:10 UTC  

it seems our welfare laws discourage two-parent households

2019-03-10 16:03:04 UTC  

lol "mostly inflation" like that's negligable, just inflation. inflation is a killer. at best it nullifies your policy, at worst it destroys the economy

2019-03-10 16:05:33 UTC  

the problem in venezuela is inflation

2019-03-10 16:21:49 UTC  

Yes; however, the current low-inflation/low-growth environment likely needs a change in policy to fix

2019-03-10 16:22:13 UTC  

And a UBI would encourage two-parent households since it doubles your combined UBI

2019-03-10 16:22:48 UTC  

The problem with Venezuela was that they printed too much money compared with their productive capacity

2019-03-10 16:23:13 UTC  

If increasing money supply leads to demand still below production capacity, inflation won’t become cyclical

2019-03-10 16:27:02 UTC  

andrew yang's version of ubi says you can keep your existing welfare

2019-03-10 16:27:06 UTC  

if you prefer that

2019-03-10 16:27:41 UTC  

i'm sure there are some versions of ubi that make more sense than our current welfare system

2019-03-10 16:28:24 UTC  

well, maybe

2019-03-10 16:30:06 UTC  

a critisism of ubi is that if you replace welfare with ubi, that it takes away from those who actually can't work and need it the most

2019-03-10 16:30:37 UTC  

if you keep welfare and add ubi on top of it that seems incredibly expensive

2019-03-10 16:45:53 UTC  

i just don't see a problem to be fixed, what is the problem to which UBI is the solution? we can reform welfare

2019-03-10 16:46:10 UTC  

low-inflation-low-growth enviornment? huh? isn't the economy doing great?

2019-03-10 18:23:22 UTC  

Visitor that is a recipe\ for disasters, QEs are horrible

2019-03-10 18:23:40 UTC  

@Eno_ UBI might be as bad as a minimum wage

2019-03-10 21:15:44 UTC  

UBI will eliminate the need for a minimum wage

2019-03-10 21:15:45 UTC  

But ok

2019-03-10 21:21:01 UTC  

Hell yeah

2019-03-10 22:01:24 UTC  

But UBI produces the same benefit to everyone

2019-03-10 22:01:37 UTC  

Now you could supplement that with disability income for those who can’t work if you want

2019-03-10 22:01:41 UTC  

Idk

2019-03-10 22:01:57 UTC  

And that’s what QE4P would seek to reform @sɪᴅɪsɴᴏᴛʜᴇʀᴇ

2019-03-11 09:29:14 UTC  

UBI like the equally destructive Minimum Wage incentivises people to demand higher wages and guess what higher wages do? They incentivise employers to hire less and invest more in labor saving technology. Then to make matters worse because the funding for UBI comes completely out of one of these methods of destruction:
1. Taxes-Employers cut back in the here and now thus reducing the number of wage earners
2. Inflation-Employers attempt to invest more in technology now to eliminate labor in the future

There are other problems too, UBI also strips consumers of the ability to dictate the market. In the marketplace wealth is earned by generating value. When someone purchases a good, they’ve earned the money they are spending by having produced something. This is not the case with welfare programs like UBI. Money is forcibly taken from those who have produced enough to earn it, and given to those who haven’t. This allows for people who aren’t producing wealth to continue to consume goods. Eventually all government welfare leads to the consumption of wealth, or at the very least, a reduction in the amount of wealth that would have been accumulated otherwise. When entrepreneurs have less need to respond to the needs and desires of their customers, consumers will find themselves with fewer choices and with inferior choices. This means that overall welfare makes everyone poorer than they would have been in a free market

@Anon365 there’s many problems with the UBI but that’s a few of them. It can be equally as bad as minimum wage

2019-03-11 09:30:46 UTC  

And I doubt it’ll be stopping at 1k a month, a bit like how the income tax was supposed to stay at 1%.

2019-03-11 09:48:06 UTC  

Just saying, the top tax rate was never supposed to stay at 1%

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/418667927169138688/554601435547959297/image0.png

2019-03-11 09:48:39 UTC  

Yeah I mean it was the highest it was going to get