She also wanted some fun in the Oval room like Bill did

@Jerm to exploit and capture more oil fields off course

Hilary also stated she wanted a wall, back in 2009, I think.

The difference is that she said "fence" and not "wall".

Its illogical to NOT want a wall... or barrier, or fence.... regardless of its make up

"As a senator from New York, Clinton voted to authorize war not just in Afghanistan but in Iraq, too, despite a less-than-compelling case for invading the latter country. She also supported extended occupations that have failed to accomplish anything other the near-complete destabilization of the entire Middle East and Central Asian regions. Incredibly, she still talks about the U.S. intervention in Libya—which she argued for forcefully as Secretary of State—as an example of "smart power." "

"Add to that her near-complete failure while serving as the nation's top diplomat (including a ludicrously botched "reset" with Russia) and her calls for increasing all manner of surveillance in the service of the global war on terror and you're looking at a huge increase in state power with little sense of balance or responsibility."

Clinton on free speech:

""You're going to hear all of the usual complaints—you know, 'freedom of speech,' etc.," she said. "But if we truly are in a war against terrorism and we are truly looking for ways to shut off their funding, shut off the flow of foreign fighters, then we've got to shut off their means of communicating.""

"Clinton however supported the odious Defense of Marriage Act signed by her husband in the late 1990s, which was an attempt to forestall recognition of gay marriage. In fact, she only embraced marriage equality in 2013, in a conversion that is widely seen as political."

The woman flipflipped incredibly.

She also opposes free trade deals like NAFTA, CAFTA, and the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

She would have been a tragic president.

But let's get sad about Trump's guy talk in a locker room.

Thats why I believe the election failed so badly for the democrats... People are tired of the Clintons...

I think if Sanders was on the ticket, the race could have been different

"If Trump wins I am moving to another country" - Only heard of Madonna moving so far... Cant be that bad in the States

John Cleese is moving to the US, I think.

Hahahaha

Well there you have it

But that is also crap from all these so called celebrities. "If Trump wins, i'm moving blah blah blah" It happens aaaaaaand nothing. They stay and bitch about him not sticking to his word yet they still there. They bitch about him wanting to build a wall, yet have 100m high walls around their own properties and never invite immigrants into their own homes that have 20 open bedrooms. Groups like Antifa that label every Trump supporter a racist/nazi/homophobe simply because they support Trump are the best simply because they 1) half of them do not actual know why they protesting 2) watching them cry is awesome

@Jerm I mentioned specific things which I think are relevant. Put simply :
- He is more dishonest than most
- He is willing to increase human suffering in order to make political gains (might not be unique to him, but his
moves seem more arb.
- He is deliberately divisive

I think these are relevant, and these qualities can be witnessed without looking through the lense of MSM

I don't agree.

@Jerm Thats fine... you can be wrong if you want 😃

Obama was willing - and did - increase human suffering.

Obama deported the most immigrants than any president before him.

@Jerm whoah.... I gave the reasons why I dont like Trump

not the reasons why I like / dislike Obama

He was also the first president in US history to serve 2 full terms at war.

Trump's dishonesty doesn't matter to me.

it doesn't have to matter to you for it to matter

it doesn't matter to the markets either.

Trust is something that matters to markets... and leadership

his dishonesty just hasn't played out there

If that were true, then the markets would show it. They don't.

US Markets are looking good though

Markets are the best since 2014.

But are the US markets not better in a long time under Trump?

I'm not seeing actual data here, other than feelings.

yup

I dislike him "because he's dishonest".

Nobody cares about that.