At the time, they were horrid.

Yeah Stability, but no growth

is anyone going to expand on context

or are you just going to pretend that that was a direct and immediate result of zumas election?

there is no point in discussing if you are going to actively ignore facts because they dont support your position

you dont have to guess

there is data

Well Zumas presidency started on the axing of Mbeki, so of course there would be some turmoil

which I know you love

why do choose to ignore this data?

China, same period as SA's massive dip.

to drift from this.....

This is the problem, with world politics at the moment... Being unable to concede that Trumps crazy levels of dishonesty, could be a risk to business is a good example of identity politics.

if we concede one point we feel we have to concede them all

economic policies are too left leaning at the moment, some weird SJW stuff going on in the world, but this planting a flag in the ground and defending everything is the real danger

the center is dead

he did a lot to kill it, but 2 years is like a fart in the wind

It isn't. It's 2 years.

2 years is more than 0 years.

If it isn't important, then what number would you like to start at?

4 years?

8 years?

Mugabe killed his economy almost, literally, overnight.

We should have the best idea when his first Term is concluded

If EWC goes ahead and our economy tanks, then are we still going to say "No, but you see, we need to wait until his first term is up before we can make any conclusions."

Yeah! But US and Trump are smarter than that, I think it would take time to see the affects on US markets.

@Jerm fair enough. I will give you that. Although, I am not implying that Trump would do something as crazy as land grabs.... I do think he is capable of a state capture type project

He has already captured the state! He is president 😃

and when some of his supporters where "I would rather be Russian then Democrat" shirts, I am reminded of a lot of the ANC memebers outside court for zuma

wear not where

that would be a long term project - 6 years if that is his plan (and that is admittedly very speculative, but it is why trust is a big issue for me on leadership)

by that time it is too late, and we all suffer if that economy gets hollowed out

again... not suggesting he is doing it.... just saying that he is probably the most likely candidate the US has had for a long time

(although Cheney bush folk were cunning)

This would be so much easier if we could just take Trump out for a beer.... oh wait, he doesnt drink... a coffee then

NEVER trust a man who doesnt drink

fact

@Tom_Servo something we agree on

to drift once more... please indulge me

why do you think reps and dems end up landing in the same place on unrelated social issues?

ie... death penalty, abortion, guns, immigration, marijuana

surely some people who support immigration reform think there should be more gun control and legal marijuana