in the early 20th century quantum physicists realised that they can't measure an object without affecting it by virtue of the measurement

coming back to the point that life is not objects but a series of subject object connections

@Sheamus Suggestions?

and science is the study of the object

spirituality/religion is the study of the subject

anyway, just wanted to flesh out what I think the subject/self/soul is in relation to science and religion

Ditsem! @rob, you just advanced to level 5!

Yeah, let's start with a common principle that we all can agree on? I like the golden rule, And use that principle as reference to our agreement on what we can best relate to as fair and equal.

I like the golden rule, I find it easier to explain by describing its opposite

Rob you nailed it again

humans have the capacity for evil because they know what would feel terrible for themselves to experience and they can therefore do that to others. the golden rule is the opposite of torture/pure evil

Materialsim is the opposite of Spirituality.

And from there, you can logically deduce the nature of man.

Yes, agreed with you guys.. But creation is the balance of the two. Balance is key. Always have to balance everything to solve problems lol

I'm doing some MS PAINT work brb

Lol why ms paint, if you going to be cheap, then at least get gimp

quantum experiments have also confirmed that there is a group non material reality(holy spirit if you like) that generates our material reality in the same way that our immatterial thoughts generate our material electrical impulses in our brain https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/coming-to-grips-with-the-implications-of-quantum-mechanics/

thanks guys 😃 I enjoy chatting about this stuff

@Sheamus looool

You are always welcome here bud, i like both of your company so far, both of you are very engaging intellectuals. It's a relief from the emotional drama found in other parts of the net.

To be more precise, materialism and spirituality exist as opposite ends of the same scale. And in order to define spirituality, we must first define materialism.

ja I think smaller groups are important, it's eternal september out there

good question, what is materialism?

We are born into the material world right?

I don't understand it, I always think that after I die I'll get to go through a library of life videos and watch my life and I always think, that's why it's not supposed to be easy, and why it would be horrible to be a prince for example(you'd have to do so much more to have a video worth watching)

you want a story with challenge overcome

Anything you can quantify , or see, or touch. Even your children. EVERYTHING that exists outside of the conscious mind is a materialist attachment.

Well if you define the one, the other is defined naturally. So we can discuss either materialism or spirituality

although, now writing that I'm thinking what if it's a library of video games, and what if we're already there playing one now 💥

We love rugby? How can you love rugby if you can also love a woman? Therefore materialism is also everything we do.

Lol after chowing down on 🍄 i have likened it to a VR like experience honestly

so does that mean that other entities are all NPCs?

or does the materialist believe themselves to be some sort of determanistic machine

or am I just confused

Yes, well those that are emotional are, they are subject to nature's will, biology at work, part of the system, where is intellectuals, are the players with avatars to have an experience

😆

so the materialist believes that only they and a few others potentially are conscious

I've wondered that once or twice.....

Ever noticed how predictable the emotional heathens are? Like badly programmed AI

it's crazy

The problem today is @rob , everyone believes themselves to be somewhat spiritual, but no one can even define the word.