I've seen intelligent friends brainwashed, it's sad

but the spiritual needs to be shown to people in ways that they can understand

We all need to start fasting, and awaken to our true nature.

in vedantas book they say the different yogas were ways for different natured people to acheive enlightenment

so intellectuals need to be shown it intellectually

and emotional people need to be shown truth emotionally

in my mind science has explained religion and they align perfectly, the people that disagree are humanities students

spiritual people need to know god directly like you are advocating @Deejay from Earth

DeeJay, you are saying we should do nothing, fast and be lazy, unlearn what we've learnt, ideas are bad.... But then you go on to propagate ideas none the less, aren't you?

but some people in our societies are shamans and some are musicians and some are inventors and they all express god through their attention

Yes and they all participate in the material realm.

I think that the mass of communists in south africa still have gogos that pay funeral cover for a big funeral because they believe in god

and I think that's the angle that needs to be worked in south africa

Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water.

@Sheamus The lazy, unkept and disorganized people are always the spiritual ones.

it is critical that we evolve spiritually

different types of people exist, some are messy, some are organised, some talk to god at night, some don't but we all have the potential to speak to god. Our purpose though is to live the life god intended, not to escape it.

Lol it does evolve into many different branches

Ditsem! @Sheamus, you just advanced to level 7!

Yes, agreed.. Measured by the Golden rule, very reasonable to agree with that. To serve a will greater than our selfish desires.

The bhagavad gita starts with Arjuna(a great warrior) facing an army of his cousins and starting to wonder whether all the bloodshed is worth it... Krishna (his friend) arrives, reveals his true identity as Krishna and explains that Arjuna is a great warrior and that he _must_ fight and then proceeds to explain the nature of reality to Arjuna

Picture if you will the Wise Man of the idyllic small village in the mountains. What is the role of the holy man of the village? Obviously he is the spiritual leader. He is also the political adviser to the Chief. He is also the engineer and the doctor. He is also the medicine man. So in my view, Spirituality is knowledge as well the ability to think and reason logically and critically. To have the answers. And isn't that what people want from their God, answers? Spiritual people live for helping others, materialist people live only for themselves. The spiritual man understands the nature of his reality as well as his place in it. And this ability is meant for everyone. It's natural and physiological. Not ideological.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/12/fasting-for-three-days-can-regenerate-entire-immune-system-study/

@Deejay from Earth interesting, I like the idea of the Renaissance man being able to do a bit of everything, and certainly today you can be quite a prolific tinkerer in the material realm in mainstream society

Lol all of that can only be understood by ideas... Why do you oppose using a reasonable definition for ideology, why do you insist using your definition that vilifies it? Where is this prejudice rooted?

I think we're tripping over words here

A three day fast is what Easter is actually about. Your old immune system dies and is born again.

I think ideas and ideology are different

I think ideology is the worship of ideas

Elaborate

so you have an ideology

that is the idea that you worship

It's a collection of ideas, axioms and maxims, principles.

like capitalism, etc

https://idmprogram.com/fasting-cures-diabetes-t2d-4/

so in the outside world it is fine

there are loads of ideologies

but in the spiritual world it isn't fine to subscribe to any ideology that doesn't put a personal connection between you and god

Yes and ideology shapes your perception right? Influences your choices and the way you understand and interact with the material world. It's a collection of ideas that shape your understanding. Religion is probably the better term to define the worshipping of an idea.

so if you 'believe' in social justice you put the cause of social justice in your heart, if you 'believe' in capitalism you put money in your heart

and you always try to accumulate more of that