just noticing where the golden rule helps society. ebay by all acounts should have lasted a week, people pay, people run away with the money, but it didn't people trusted each other.

quite a few times I run into the idea that morality doesn't need a religious basis, or it does - what are your thoughts on that one?

Yeah agreed, golden rule is the only rule you need. Confucias had it nicely set for societal approach. Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state.

DeeJay you agree to the golden rule as the ideal way to define what's reasonable?

where does that put us with psychopaths?

and bipolar women (ducks)

Ah that's a discussion on solutions... We should maybe try get a room going for that where we can reason on solutions to our problems

@rob Get rid of sanctity.
People will understand the truth
and be happier.

Get rid of morality.
People will respect each other
and do what's right.

Get rid of value and profit.
People will not steal
if they do not desire.

If that's not possible, go to Plan B:
Be simple. Be real.
Do your work as best you can.
Don't think about what you get for it.
Stay focused. Get rid of all your crap.

~Lao Tzu

Lol traditional and a modern update to it

you see I think the verse here "Get rid of value and profit.
People will not steal
if they do not desire."

is so true

and the communists also believe it

but they come from a mindset of scarcity

And that scarcity mind set is a huge problem

I disagree with some of that though, value is needed... But it probably refers to material value.

whereas i see us producing so much 'stuff'(tools) that is good enough for purpose. I think in terms of value created using tools

Value is only needed in a materialist world.

Exactly, there's value that's needed... It's not material though. Which was my point

I commented on EWC that the communists mustn't be shocked if no one stays to hear them play once they've stolen all the instruments from the orchestra

I have tons of computers but I can't give my knowledge to my domestic worker

No, you value good as opposed to evil don't you?

so just giving 'stuff' has limited utility

what I'm saying is the only value is really the creative value

To be spiritual, and to become the definition of spirituality, you have to reject the material world. Not just through fasting. You actually, literally have to start getting rid of your shit. We do not get possessed by demons, we are possessed by our own possessions.

Your mind keeps track of every single penny you have. Every single thing you say and do. Everything you own. And how much you value it.

we have what we need(tool wise), the only things of value are not available on the market. Going back to the afterlife video library, you can't buy a video of Mozart without putting in the effort.

Ditsem! @rob, you just advanced to level 6!

Yeah but I'll have to bring up last nights argument again on ideology. These are all ideas, and ideas aren't inherently bad, you can't say you have NO IDEA what truth or reason is. You need an idea, and serving an idea you know to be good is not the same as being deceptively enslaved by an idea that's bad.

hmm, serving an idea is a really interesting point

have you guys read Crichton's critique on environmentalism?

When you start letting go of the material world - by eating less and doing less - your mind will start waking up.

I fast two to four days a week.

Why not just fast intermittently, you still get into ketosis that way and it's much more reasonable since it offers more consistency, as opposed to the chaotic interruptions you cause your body with the heavy start and stop

There is a scientifically-provable entirely physiological process that starts when you start fasting.

Imagine the human mind is like a giant one million port Gigabit Network Switch.

Every cent you have have takes up a port.

Every single thing you own is plugged in.

Even your next planned holiday is taking up a few ports already.

I agree with you @Deejay from Earth but I also like the idea I read in The Eternities - Vedanta Treatise (A.Parthasarathy) - basically that there is a certain hygeine required for science, so we see scientists in clean laboratories practicing science, similarly sages need to undergo a cleaning process, but regular people can use the lessons learned by scientists in labs that they never see - in fact it is natural. He says that spiritual lessons are also for the non sages to use, even though they might only be discovered by sages

My battery is almost kaput, still haven't all agreed on how we define what's reasonable. Rob you are on board with the golden rule yeah? And what about you Deejay?