@Malcolm the Seceder So then..... why do you believe it? In other words, why are you a Christian?

Why not believe in forgiveness... It's reasonable isn't it, someone acknowledges they do wrong, and then making every attempt to do right?

I mean, why do you believe in the Holy Trinity, why do you believe in the Bible?

Have you read it? I mean genuinely read it, casting your prejudices aside and not judging the words, but reasoning with the meaning behind it... It's pretty convincing when your feelings aren't dictating your reasons for rejecting it.

I have read it, but I'll probably have to give it another go now that I'm older.

Yes, it helps, and after you read it, would be worth reading it again with the knowledge of later parts again... It's a study, not just a good read.

A fresh attempt at Christianity sounds good, without the childhood indoctrination.

So basically the content of the Bible itself convinced you that it's real. I can roll with that

What do mean by "that it's real"?

That the Holy Trinity God exists

That Jesus died on a cross for your sins

That Jonah was swallowed by a whale (maybe?)

etc.

Personally, I have for a long time subscribed to the idea that we simply cannot determine how we came to be, as in, how the planets came to be, or how life came to be. And that we must accept that ignorance.

The whale did swallow Jonah right? It's not some figurative meaning story or sumthing right?

Lol, yeah... Don't judge words on their appearances, but observe the meanings and judge righteous judgement.

That sounds hard, I take things literally

Yes, materialism is tempting, distracting and deceptive, that's mother nature for you lol... Father God is reasonable and understanding. Find some balance between the material and the spiritual. It's not easy, but it does become easier as you make progress, each day becoming a better you, than you were the day before.

Thanks for that. Must say though, some actual proof that I can see with my eyes would also make it very easy.

Like actually seeing a miracle performed in the name of Jesus / God

I'ma be honest, that would make me a believer in an instant

I have never encountered anything super natural in my life

Why though, do you believe your biological senses provide an accurate and direct experience of reality? Or are your senses only interpreting reality for you to process and consume it indirectly?

I experienced something during a Christian event. I was in tears for no apparent reason..I have also witnessed someone being overcome by something and the person speaking in tongues. But still I am sceptical of the trinity. I however believe in God.

I think I am a pantheist

overly simplified but something like this

The ALL personified as God?

I have to believe in my biological senses to provide an accurate experience of reality in the absence of believing in the super natural. Seems like a catch 22. It is all I have to base reality upon.

It's not all you have, it's very limiting to even accept that that's all you have. But why do you think that's all you have? Do you think you are the flesh?

@DrLoLCat Well the short answer is because God converted me

@Sheamus yes I do believe I am the flesh 😦

the difficult truth one accepts as an agnostic

@DrLoLCat you sure? If so, can you directly control your flesh? I mean as in make your heartbeat go faster or slower at will, without indirectly influencing with activity to speed it up and relaxing to slow it down again? Simple example, but there is a lot examples such as that, such as putting yourself to sleep at will without influencing it with light, comfort and safety, make yourself blind and undo it, control your blood pressure etc.

I've tried these things, I've failed... I've come to the conclusion that the flesh is merely a meatsuit, my person, my helper, and i can only influence it with my will and knowledge to indirectly control it, but i cannot directly control it.

So I've concluded that i am not the flesh, and that it is merely my servant, or slave if you are into that mindset that willing servants are also slaves. While i wish to trust its interpretation of reality, i know its sins, and i know its prejudices. I don't trust it all that much, for if i did, i would be a lost cause, like a flat earther. But i do master it, reason with it, and understand it, then filter out it's prejudices and consider its selfishness, reason until the subjectivity is removed and I'm left with what is pure, the objective, the truth, and that's my closest encounter with direct reality.

That all said, I'm not saying i have the purest truth, as the verse in Jeremiah goes: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" and though i know it, i don't know all of it, there is still so much I'm struggling with, with regards to myself, because i still deceive myself, and i recognize it, and reason with it. My self mastery is not complete, but each day I'm a better person than i was the day before.

Maybe there really is a difference in people, maybe there are people that can control their flesh directly in such a means that they are genuinely the flesh, and they might not be experiencing being the same way i do lol, i think those who claim to be the flesh mostly just are deceived by their own prejudices and sins, so that they may justify their sins.

😐

Now you have some insight to my perspective, and by no means do i say i have it right lol, but perhaps assists you in understanding how i got convinced of my perception and understanding, and why i willingly serve a greater idea, than my hearts selfish desires.

And sorry for the wall of text lol

@DrLoLCat @Sheamus The whale did literally swallow Jonah.

@Malcolm the Seceder okay.. 😐 there's a teaching though, a principle behind it. I would rather place my emphasis on the teaching.