Message from @Derde

Discord ID: 481131628962250752


2018-08-20 15:50:41 UTC  

Someone who is in a sinful rage and dies in that moment is very different. It is not required of the believer that he has asked forgiveness of every single sin before he can enter Heaven. That is Roman Catholicism.

2018-08-20 15:51:28 UTC  

I didn't say anything like that. What I said was that someone who lives a life of sin and doesn't care is probably not saved. Someone who is saved, sins and is mournful about it shows signs that they are saved

2018-08-20 15:52:10 UTC  

Believers can backslide, and they can excuse certain sins in their lives. But a) they're not indifferent about it, they know they're sinning and b) they will be brought to repentance eventually

2018-08-20 15:53:46 UTC  

You're saying this ... there are "mortal sins"
a) no self-deception is allowed
b) repentance is mandatory before death

2018-08-20 15:53:52 UTC  

Salvation by continual repentance is what you end up with when you head down the "lordship salvation" road.

2018-08-20 15:54:03 UTC  

The Bible teaches, and Calvinism teaches, that sinners are made progressively more holy on this side of eternity. Some more than others and none perfectly. But the carnal nature is gradually destroyed and the spiritual nature is gradually made stronger. They are conformed more and more to the image of Christ. But they are not made perfect in holiness until they are translated into Heaven at death

2018-08-20 15:54:07 UTC  

This is the "gospel" of muslims and mormons.

2018-08-20 15:54:42 UTC  

I have said nothing about mortal sins. And I specifically said that a believer does NOT need to repent of every single sin before he can enter Heaven

2018-08-20 15:55:33 UTC  

What i did say was that throughout life the believer will always be repenting because he is always sinning. The believer still has the carnal, sinful nature within him. By nature he sins every moment. He can do nothing without corrupting it with his sin so he must always be asking forgiveness

2018-08-20 15:56:57 UTC  

You said "certain sins". By implication, other sins are excluded.

2018-08-20 15:58:53 UTC  

My deal is done - a good and perfect gift by faith, and nothing can change it:
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
It would be great for my life below to match to the calling wherewith I'm called, but being perfect is a long way off.

2018-08-20 15:58:56 UTC  

What I meant by "certain sins" was that believers often, in their own mind, excuse certain sins which they dismiss as "small" and basically ok. This is obviously wrong. All sins are worthy of death. But we're talking about sinners. We do not think perfectly. And we're very good at deceiving ourselves, or allowing Satan to deceive us into thinking certain sins are ok.

2018-08-20 15:59:01 UTC  

Ditsem! @Derde, you just advanced to level 3!

2018-08-20 16:02:05 UTC  

Justification is perfect. Faith can be weak or strong in different believers, but true faith is by justification and justification is the same in all believers as one is either justified or not. But sanctification is a different thing from justification. It is never perfect in this life because the believer will always have his carnal nature. Believers have two natures: the carnal and the spiritual. Until he dies and goes to Heaven, when he is made perfect in holiness.

2018-08-20 16:03:14 UTC  

You can't just attach a whole theology to a word when that word has a perfectly good meaning already.

2018-08-20 16:03:28 UTC  

This is Calvinism

2018-08-20 16:04:07 UTC  

Justification and Sanctification are theological words and have to be understood in their theological contexts

2018-08-20 16:04:15 UTC  

I defy you to find the words "true faith" in a real Bible.

2018-08-20 16:04:39 UTC  

I have already given you a passage from Scripture which talks about good and bad fruits

2018-08-20 16:05:07 UTC  

Christ was talking about the Pharisees who had the externals of faith but were not true believers and that was shown by their fruits

2018-08-20 16:05:19 UTC  

He was warning about false prophets.

2018-08-20 16:05:23 UTC  

Exactly

2018-08-20 16:05:26 UTC  

They have plenty of wonderful works.

2018-08-20 16:05:31 UTC  

And miracles

2018-08-20 16:05:37 UTC  

And they call him "Lord Lord"

2018-08-20 16:05:57 UTC  

Indeed but they were not true believers

2018-08-20 16:06:12 UTC  

And that is what Christ is saying: they're fruits were not the fruit of the Spirit

2018-08-20 16:06:18 UTC  

They did not have true faith

2018-08-20 16:06:28 UTC  

But they did have lordship salvation.

2018-08-20 16:06:33 UTC  

No they didn't

2018-08-20 16:06:42 UTC  

They had faith in their works.

2018-08-20 16:07:07 UTC  

Look, Lordship salvation is a term that people started using in the 20th century. So just ignore that. The doctrine is that Christ is one's Lord and Saviour

2018-08-20 16:07:15 UTC  

Not just a Saviour but also Lord

2018-08-20 16:07:39 UTC  

He's Lord no matter what you say or do. He's YOUR Lord, no matter what you think.

2018-08-20 16:07:55 UTC  

You don't make him anything.

2018-08-20 16:07:56 UTC  

I am talking in the context of being a believer

2018-08-20 16:08:20 UTC  

Yes, Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords that's not what we're talking about

2018-08-20 16:08:26 UTC  

We are talking about the life of the believer

2018-08-20 16:08:33 UTC  

I'm talking about who he is.

2018-08-20 16:08:42 UTC  

Well that's not what we've been talking about

2018-08-20 16:09:11 UTC  

That's why we're still talking - because we lost each other on basic terms.