Message from @Derde

Discord ID: 481129526105997335


2018-08-20 15:41:40 UTC  

And if he doesn't ask, kinda knows, and doesn't care?

2018-08-20 15:41:51 UTC  

Well if he doesn't repent then he's not saved

2018-08-20 15:42:12 UTC  

So if you die in a sinful rage that you don't repent of, you're going to hell?

2018-08-20 15:42:24 UTC  

Someone who doesn't care that he has sinned and doesn't seek forgiveness is strongly suggesting he's not a true believer

2018-08-20 15:42:40 UTC  

No and that's not what you said

2018-08-20 15:43:30 UTC  

You've never sinned and not cared? Are you a real person?

2018-08-20 15:45:21 UTC  

If it's ultimately that great attitude that determines heaven and hell, then it's the works of the law, and Jesus died for nothing.
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

2018-08-20 15:47:12 UTC  

Let's take this one point at a time. You mentioned someone who sins, knows it, but doesn't care. Such a person is suggesting by his attitude that he is not saved. A true believer would care that he had sinned. He would be mournful for his sins. He would feel guilty and alienated from God. Yes, he might go for a long time without repenting. This might be for a few reasons: a) his sin hasn't yet been brought fully to his understanding, b) he might love his sin so much that he doesn't want to let it go (believers often have a particular besetting sin), c) he might ask for forgiveness every time he commits a specific sin, but still nurses the underlying sinful desire

2018-08-20 15:48:07 UTC  

But someone who knows full well that he has sinned and is not bothered by it is suggesting that he is no saved. Spiritual life in the soul will always bring guilt for sin committed. That is a fruit of the Spirit indwelling the believer

2018-08-20 15:49:19 UTC  

So every time someone sins, which is generally a failure of the will, you suggest he's not saved.

2018-08-20 15:49:53 UTC  

I don't see "guilt" in the fruit of the Spirit. love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance:

2018-08-20 15:50:41 UTC  

Someone who is in a sinful rage and dies in that moment is very different. It is not required of the believer that he has asked forgiveness of every single sin before he can enter Heaven. That is Roman Catholicism.

2018-08-20 15:51:28 UTC  

I didn't say anything like that. What I said was that someone who lives a life of sin and doesn't care is probably not saved. Someone who is saved, sins and is mournful about it shows signs that they are saved

2018-08-20 15:52:10 UTC  

Believers can backslide, and they can excuse certain sins in their lives. But a) they're not indifferent about it, they know they're sinning and b) they will be brought to repentance eventually

2018-08-20 15:53:46 UTC  

You're saying this ... there are "mortal sins"
a) no self-deception is allowed
b) repentance is mandatory before death

2018-08-20 15:53:52 UTC  

Salvation by continual repentance is what you end up with when you head down the "lordship salvation" road.

2018-08-20 15:54:03 UTC  

The Bible teaches, and Calvinism teaches, that sinners are made progressively more holy on this side of eternity. Some more than others and none perfectly. But the carnal nature is gradually destroyed and the spiritual nature is gradually made stronger. They are conformed more and more to the image of Christ. But they are not made perfect in holiness until they are translated into Heaven at death

2018-08-20 15:54:07 UTC  

This is the "gospel" of muslims and mormons.

2018-08-20 15:54:42 UTC  

I have said nothing about mortal sins. And I specifically said that a believer does NOT need to repent of every single sin before he can enter Heaven

2018-08-20 15:55:33 UTC  

What i did say was that throughout life the believer will always be repenting because he is always sinning. The believer still has the carnal, sinful nature within him. By nature he sins every moment. He can do nothing without corrupting it with his sin so he must always be asking forgiveness

2018-08-20 15:56:57 UTC  

You said "certain sins". By implication, other sins are excluded.

2018-08-20 15:58:53 UTC  

My deal is done - a good and perfect gift by faith, and nothing can change it:
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
It would be great for my life below to match to the calling wherewith I'm called, but being perfect is a long way off.

2018-08-20 15:58:56 UTC  

What I meant by "certain sins" was that believers often, in their own mind, excuse certain sins which they dismiss as "small" and basically ok. This is obviously wrong. All sins are worthy of death. But we're talking about sinners. We do not think perfectly. And we're very good at deceiving ourselves, or allowing Satan to deceive us into thinking certain sins are ok.

2018-08-20 15:59:01 UTC  

Ditsem! @Derde, you just advanced to level 3!

2018-08-20 16:02:05 UTC  

Justification is perfect. Faith can be weak or strong in different believers, but true faith is by justification and justification is the same in all believers as one is either justified or not. But sanctification is a different thing from justification. It is never perfect in this life because the believer will always have his carnal nature. Believers have two natures: the carnal and the spiritual. Until he dies and goes to Heaven, when he is made perfect in holiness.

2018-08-20 16:03:14 UTC  

You can't just attach a whole theology to a word when that word has a perfectly good meaning already.

2018-08-20 16:03:28 UTC  

This is Calvinism

2018-08-20 16:04:07 UTC  

Justification and Sanctification are theological words and have to be understood in their theological contexts

2018-08-20 16:04:15 UTC  

I defy you to find the words "true faith" in a real Bible.

2018-08-20 16:04:39 UTC  

I have already given you a passage from Scripture which talks about good and bad fruits

2018-08-20 16:05:07 UTC  

Christ was talking about the Pharisees who had the externals of faith but were not true believers and that was shown by their fruits

2018-08-20 16:05:19 UTC  

He was warning about false prophets.

2018-08-20 16:05:23 UTC  

Exactly

2018-08-20 16:05:26 UTC  

They have plenty of wonderful works.

2018-08-20 16:05:31 UTC  

And miracles

2018-08-20 16:05:37 UTC  

And they call him "Lord Lord"

2018-08-20 16:05:57 UTC  

Indeed but they were not true believers

2018-08-20 16:06:12 UTC  

And that is what Christ is saying: they're fruits were not the fruit of the Spirit

2018-08-20 16:06:18 UTC  

They did not have true faith

2018-08-20 16:06:28 UTC  

But they did have lordship salvation.

2018-08-20 16:06:33 UTC  

No they didn't