Message from @Derde

Discord ID: 481138075821670400


2018-08-20 16:25:09 UTC  

It was a reaction to easy-believism which basically said if you agree with certain Biblical truths you're saved even if you continued living your life as you always did, committing sin, etc.

2018-08-20 16:25:31 UTC  

Is getting saved hard?

2018-08-20 16:25:57 UTC  

Christ did the hard part, you know.

2018-08-20 16:26:17 UTC  

If it's submitting, following, striving, obeying then it's not faith.

2018-08-20 16:26:24 UTC  

It's very hard. Indeed it impossible for man to save himself but with God all things are possible. But even "the righteous are scarecly saved". 1 Peter 4:18

2018-08-20 16:26:59 UTC  

Well, the righteous will scarecely be saved from the judgement of God

2018-08-20 16:27:02 UTC  

But the Spirit enables the sinner to submit, strive, obey. It's all from the power of the Spirit indwelling the believer

2018-08-20 16:27:03 UTC  

They are part of his household.

2018-08-20 16:27:10 UTC  

That's why they get it first.

2018-08-20 16:27:24 UTC  

It's all from the power of God in the soul of the believer. It's not by his own strength.

2018-08-20 16:27:34 UTC  

And some of the righteous are living wickedly.

2018-08-20 16:27:43 UTC  

Yes they do I don't deny that.

2018-08-20 16:28:07 UTC  

But if someone who claims to be saved was living a wicked life and they showed no signs of guilt about it I would question whether they are saved

2018-08-20 16:28:21 UTC  

Be the guy in James 2 then, go wild.

2018-08-20 16:28:29 UTC  

What do you mean?

2018-08-20 16:28:59 UTC  

"Show me your faith without works."

2018-08-20 16:29:23 UTC  

You can question, but asking questions does not make a thing so, or not so.

2018-08-20 16:30:33 UTC  

You understand that question is facetious? The whole point of the question is that one can't show faith without works. James is arguing that true faith always produces fruit.

2018-08-20 16:30:47 UTC  

There is no such concept as "true faith".

2018-08-20 16:30:52 UTC  

There is faith.

2018-08-20 16:30:56 UTC  

There is "dead faith"

2018-08-20 16:31:00 UTC  

There is no "true faith".

2018-08-20 16:31:10 UTC  

True faith is an expression that is used because it's useful

2018-08-20 16:31:39 UTC  

When faith is dead, what is it that is dead?

2018-08-20 16:31:43 UTC  

Covenant of works does not appear in the Bible but is very useful theological shorthand

2018-08-20 16:31:51 UTC  

The word Trinity does not appear in the Bible either

2018-08-20 16:32:05 UTC  

"Covenant of works" is nonsense.

2018-08-20 16:32:15 UTC  

I thought you were a Calvinist?

2018-08-20 16:32:35 UTC  

I was 😃

2018-08-20 16:32:58 UTC  

What church are you a member of?

2018-08-20 16:33:01 UTC  

'cmon, call me an Arminian.

2018-08-20 16:33:06 UTC  

Ditsem! @Malcolm the Seceder, you just advanced to level 18!

2018-08-20 16:33:36 UTC  

Do you want to visit?

2018-08-20 16:33:53 UTC  

Ditsem! @Derde, you just advanced to level 4!

2018-08-20 16:34:10 UTC  

No I want to know from what context you are arguing. You accused MacArthur of not following Calvinism and I was responding to that. I assumed you considered yourself a Calvinist

2018-08-20 16:35:40 UTC  

There's a spectrum of Calvinism. TULIP pretends to answer great philosophical questions about salvation, but it does not claim to be the gospel. That's old-school calvinism. It's broadly compatible with salvation by grace through faith without works.

2018-08-20 16:36:02 UTC  

However, when you follow it to the hard conclusions and you stick to them doggedly, you are preaching salvation by faith with works.

2018-08-20 16:36:47 UTC  

(And for a bonus, you don't need the gospel, since it's God's secret election that ultimately saves, but that's off the point.)

2018-08-20 16:38:50 UTC  

TULIP was a response to specific complaints raised by the Remonstrants against the teaching of the Reformed churches. Those five points were never meant to encompass all Biblical teaching. There's a lot more to being Reformed than just the five points which is why, for example, MacArthur isn't Reformed. But those five points do accurately summarise the Biblical teaching on salvation by grace alone.

2018-08-20 16:40:04 UTC  

Which is why churches which use the Canons of Dordt as part of their offical subscription also subscribe other catechisms. Because on their own the Canons don't sufficiently summarise the Reformed faith

2018-08-20 16:40:31 UTC  

The British Presbyterian Churches subscribe the Westminster Standards which encompass the teaching of the Canons