Message from @Derde
Discord ID: 481137586719424512
But we are not perfectly holy.
In the sense of our own works. We are counted holy in Christ because his perfect righteousness is imputed to us
But in ourselves, and in our own actions, we are not perfectly holy. All we do is corrupted by our remaining sin
Yes, and his righteousness is imputed to us *if* we believe:
Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
The trouble is that the lordship view says it is imputed if we make a false promise to care more about what we should be doing. That's not faith, but works, which will not save.
Well I wouldn't accept that characteristic of the Lordship position. My understanding is that what they are saying is that true faith is not merely believing a set of facts or mentally agreeing with a set of propositions. It is truly submitting to Christ, trusting in Him, following Him and striving to obey His commandments: "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15
It was a reaction to easy-believism which basically said if you agree with certain Biblical truths you're saved even if you continued living your life as you always did, committing sin, etc.
Is getting saved hard?
Christ did the hard part, you know.
If it's submitting, following, striving, obeying then it's not faith.
It's very hard. Indeed it impossible for man to save himself but with God all things are possible. But even "the righteous are scarecly saved". 1 Peter 4:18
Well, the righteous will scarecely be saved from the judgement of God
But the Spirit enables the sinner to submit, strive, obey. It's all from the power of the Spirit indwelling the believer
They are part of his household.
That's why they get it first.
It's all from the power of God in the soul of the believer. It's not by his own strength.
And some of the righteous are living wickedly.
Yes they do I don't deny that.
But if someone who claims to be saved was living a wicked life and they showed no signs of guilt about it I would question whether they are saved
Be the guy in James 2 then, go wild.
What do you mean?
You can question, but asking questions does not make a thing so, or not so.
You understand that question is facetious? The whole point of the question is that one can't show faith without works. James is arguing that true faith always produces fruit.
There is no such concept as "true faith".
There is faith.
There is "dead faith"
There is no "true faith".
True faith is an expression that is used because it's useful
When faith is dead, what is it that is dead?
Covenant of works does not appear in the Bible but is very useful theological shorthand
The word Trinity does not appear in the Bible either
"Covenant of works" is nonsense.
I thought you were a Calvinist?
I was 😃
What church are you a member of?
'cmon, call me an Arminian.
Ditsem! @Malcolm the Seceder, you just advanced to level 18!
Do you want to visit?
No I want to know from what context you are arguing. You accused MacArthur of not following Calvinism and I was responding to that. I assumed you considered yourself a Calvinist
There's a spectrum of Calvinism. TULIP pretends to answer great philosophical questions about salvation, but it does not claim to be the gospel. That's old-school calvinism. It's broadly compatible with salvation by grace through faith without works.