Message from @Derde
Discord ID: 481136908160860161
I'm not sure what you're referring to.
Either you believe in sanctification or you don't
I believe in 100% sanctification. 5% won't do, neither will 99.5%
We don't have 100% until we're in Heaven
I have 100% in heaven already. That's salvation.
Yes but you're not in Heaven you're on Earth
Yes, but I have it now in heaven, and I got it without an ounce of good works.
A believer has salvation which cannot be taken away from him. But he is not perfectly holy this side of eternity
Well I don't like this talk of "having it already in Heaven". We have salvation in Christ if He dwells within us by His Spirit. But we, our souls, will not be made perfect in holiness until we are in Heaven
We still have the carnal nature within us
The "reserved in heaven" of 1 Peter 1:4 says you should like this talk of having it already in heaven more.
Yeah ok, having an inheritance in Heaven. Yes I follow you now. Salvation has a slightly different connotation. We have an inheritance waiting for us in Heaven, but salvation is a lived experience now. Our souls are saved. We are regenerated. We do not go to Heaven and get clothed with salvation. We already have salvation. A perfect salvation because justification is perfect
But we are not perfectly holy.
In the sense of our own works. We are counted holy in Christ because his perfect righteousness is imputed to us
But in ourselves, and in our own actions, we are not perfectly holy. All we do is corrupted by our remaining sin
Yes, and his righteousness is imputed to us *if* we believe:
Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
The trouble is that the lordship view says it is imputed if we make a false promise to care more about what we should be doing. That's not faith, but works, which will not save.
Well I wouldn't accept that characteristic of the Lordship position. My understanding is that what they are saying is that true faith is not merely believing a set of facts or mentally agreeing with a set of propositions. It is truly submitting to Christ, trusting in Him, following Him and striving to obey His commandments: "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15
It was a reaction to easy-believism which basically said if you agree with certain Biblical truths you're saved even if you continued living your life as you always did, committing sin, etc.
Is getting saved hard?
Christ did the hard part, you know.
It's very hard. Indeed it impossible for man to save himself but with God all things are possible. But even "the righteous are scarecly saved". 1 Peter 4:18
Well, the righteous will scarecely be saved from the judgement of God
But the Spirit enables the sinner to submit, strive, obey. It's all from the power of the Spirit indwelling the believer
They are part of his household.
That's why they get it first.
It's all from the power of God in the soul of the believer. It's not by his own strength.
And some of the righteous are living wickedly.
Yes they do I don't deny that.
But if someone who claims to be saved was living a wicked life and they showed no signs of guilt about it I would question whether they are saved
Be the guy in James 2 then, go wild.
What do you mean?
"Show me your faith without works."
You can question, but asking questions does not make a thing so, or not so.
You understand that question is facetious? The whole point of the question is that one can't show faith without works. James is arguing that true faith always produces fruit.
There is no such concept as "true faith".
There is faith.
There is "dead faith"
There is no "true faith".
True faith is an expression that is used because it's useful
When faith is dead, what is it that is dead?