Message from @Derde

Discord ID: 481136908160860161


2018-08-20 16:13:32 UTC  

I'm not sure what you're referring to.

2018-08-20 16:13:43 UTC  

Either you believe in sanctification or you don't

2018-08-20 16:14:01 UTC  

I believe in 100% sanctification. 5% won't do, neither will 99.5%

2018-08-20 16:14:11 UTC  

We don't have 100% until we're in Heaven

2018-08-20 16:14:20 UTC  

I have 100% in heaven already. That's salvation.

2018-08-20 16:14:31 UTC  

Yes but you're not in Heaven you're on Earth

2018-08-20 16:15:01 UTC  

Yes, but I have it now in heaven, and I got it without an ounce of good works.

2018-08-20 16:15:05 UTC  

A believer has salvation which cannot be taken away from him. But he is not perfectly holy this side of eternity

2018-08-20 16:15:49 UTC  

Well I don't like this talk of "having it already in Heaven". We have salvation in Christ if He dwells within us by His Spirit. But we, our souls, will not be made perfect in holiness until we are in Heaven

2018-08-20 16:15:57 UTC  

We still have the carnal nature within us

2018-08-20 16:17:11 UTC  

The "reserved in heaven" of 1 Peter 1:4 says you should like this talk of having it already in heaven more.

2018-08-20 16:19:07 UTC  

Yeah ok, having an inheritance in Heaven. Yes I follow you now. Salvation has a slightly different connotation. We have an inheritance waiting for us in Heaven, but salvation is a lived experience now. Our souls are saved. We are regenerated. We do not go to Heaven and get clothed with salvation. We already have salvation. A perfect salvation because justification is perfect

2018-08-20 16:19:38 UTC  

But we are not perfectly holy.

2018-08-20 16:19:57 UTC  

In the sense of our own works. We are counted holy in Christ because his perfect righteousness is imputed to us

2018-08-20 16:20:16 UTC  

But in ourselves, and in our own actions, we are not perfectly holy. All we do is corrupted by our remaining sin

2018-08-20 16:22:16 UTC  

Yes, and his righteousness is imputed to us *if* we believe:
Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
The trouble is that the lordship view says it is imputed if we make a false promise to care more about what we should be doing. That's not faith, but works, which will not save.

2018-08-20 16:24:15 UTC  

Well I wouldn't accept that characteristic of the Lordship position. My understanding is that what they are saying is that true faith is not merely believing a set of facts or mentally agreeing with a set of propositions. It is truly submitting to Christ, trusting in Him, following Him and striving to obey His commandments: "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15

2018-08-20 16:25:09 UTC  

It was a reaction to easy-believism which basically said if you agree with certain Biblical truths you're saved even if you continued living your life as you always did, committing sin, etc.

2018-08-20 16:25:31 UTC  

Is getting saved hard?

2018-08-20 16:25:57 UTC  

Christ did the hard part, you know.

2018-08-20 16:26:17 UTC  

If it's submitting, following, striving, obeying then it's not faith.

2018-08-20 16:26:24 UTC  

It's very hard. Indeed it impossible for man to save himself but with God all things are possible. But even "the righteous are scarecly saved". 1 Peter 4:18

2018-08-20 16:26:59 UTC  

Well, the righteous will scarecely be saved from the judgement of God

2018-08-20 16:27:02 UTC  

But the Spirit enables the sinner to submit, strive, obey. It's all from the power of the Spirit indwelling the believer

2018-08-20 16:27:03 UTC  

They are part of his household.

2018-08-20 16:27:10 UTC  

That's why they get it first.

2018-08-20 16:27:24 UTC  

It's all from the power of God in the soul of the believer. It's not by his own strength.

2018-08-20 16:27:34 UTC  

And some of the righteous are living wickedly.

2018-08-20 16:27:43 UTC  

Yes they do I don't deny that.

2018-08-20 16:28:07 UTC  

But if someone who claims to be saved was living a wicked life and they showed no signs of guilt about it I would question whether they are saved

2018-08-20 16:28:21 UTC  

Be the guy in James 2 then, go wild.

2018-08-20 16:28:29 UTC  

What do you mean?

2018-08-20 16:28:59 UTC  

"Show me your faith without works."

2018-08-20 16:29:23 UTC  

You can question, but asking questions does not make a thing so, or not so.

2018-08-20 16:30:33 UTC  

You understand that question is facetious? The whole point of the question is that one can't show faith without works. James is arguing that true faith always produces fruit.

2018-08-20 16:30:47 UTC  

There is no such concept as "true faith".

2018-08-20 16:30:52 UTC  

There is faith.

2018-08-20 16:30:56 UTC  

There is "dead faith"

2018-08-20 16:31:00 UTC  

There is no "true faith".

2018-08-20 16:31:10 UTC  

True faith is an expression that is used because it's useful

2018-08-20 16:31:39 UTC  

When faith is dead, what is it that is dead?