Think about the long term ramifications of this: each generation the most intelligent men will marry less and have less children to avoid financial ruin. Therefore, a greater percentage of children will be born to unintelligent fathers and single mothers

What we're effectively doing is removing fathers from the family

This isn't rocket science: ban all forms of alimony and child support. In the event of a divorce if you gain custody, you pay for the kid's expenses by yourself.

slippery slope fallacy mang, i think we accept that there is impetus for change, its unreasonable to expect that the rates of divorce would continue when again theres other nations where its much lower

If you can't afford to pay, you shouldn't get custody

@Krille P. I'm saying allowing gays to adopt given their abysmal marriage rates and divorce rates on average, given that they live Promiscuous lifestyles.. how does it appear to you as a solution to have kids be raised by such people?

The rate of divorce may decrease, but only because people will marry less

also i dont think alimony and child support in and of itself is an issue but i agree, custody and visitation reform should be tackled

How do you not think its an issue that you can be divorced at any time for any reason and because you're a man you will be forced to pay your ex wife by the state for the rest of your life?

Have you truly accepted this ridiculous situation as normal?

Well, the Greek faggots obviously managed since it is viewed as an example of high culture.

And no political party even cares enough to address this of course, they're all too busy focusing on censoring "hate speech"

snake, chill, i said reform should happen

im clearly not accepting it

But it won't, that's the point

@Krille P. I'm no defender of Heathen Culture but as I said, some of the men might have engaged in Degenerate behaviors outside the house, but they settled down and built families, had kids and raised them with their Wives.

also your wrong that no political party is talking about it, certainly its not a headline issue but its a present one

There is no mechanism to achieving it and currently the majority think this is normal and good

What party is seeking to reform divorce?

especially as a higher female workforce is a thing

theres discussion from both the democrats and republicans thats addressed it, no big moves as of yet but baby steps

a big stumbling block is the public image of mras which, yknow, thats fair

Could you give me an example?

A link?

The people care so much that they put his dysfunctional system into place and cheered it as a big step of progress

We are talking about a culture that 1) Supplied the Christian philosophers/theologians with fundamental concepts. Call it heathen all you want but there is no denying that the Greeks helped form Christianity in its early days. 2) Viewed the love between two males as more pure than between man-woman. I'm just courious abot what is meant as "decay" since it is often used by would-be despots with nothing but pure hatred of man in their hearts

```a big stumbling block is the public image of mras which, yknow, thats fair```


you do realize divorced women, women who have been abused in the past or raised in a broken home are highly likely to be Feminists.. and Feminists say things that are many many times worse than any MRA I've ever seen, and they do it in College Classes and on the TV..
The image of MRA's who might have gone through abuses themselves is quite different from Feminists is it not?

@Deleted User https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathers%27_rights_movement_in_the_United_States

wikipedia i know

I'm not sure what your point is

my point is that reform has been passed incrementally already, ive raised reasons to believe that the impetus towards this isnt going away which you dont seem to object to, theres no reason to expect that it would not continue

@Krille P. You say "Greeks" as though they were a hivemind who did and believed in all the same things, as if all Greek Men were doing little boys in spare time. That is just faulty thinking..

As for Societal Decay and Degeneracy, it means all behavior that leads to the Destruction of that Society and Peoples.

You claimed that theres discussion from both the democrats and republicans thats addressed it but this article doesn't really prove this

I fail to see any reason to expect that it will suddenly reverse

bills have been passed as the article shows

What bill

```n Illinois, the following laws co-authored by Jeffery M. Leving were signed into law in 2009:

SB 1628, sponsored by Senator Iris Martinez and in the House by Representative Deborah Mell, accomplished two things: It amended the Paternity Act and other Acts to insure that both parties be informed to their right to DNA testing before paternity can be adjudicated either through a voluntary acknowledgment, court proceedings or by an administrative law judge. It also amended the visitation interference section of the Criminal Code and made it a criminal offense to deny the other parent their right to parenting time or custody time. Previously, only visitation interference was a crime. (Signed into law: August 11, 2009)

SB 1590, sponsored by Sen. Pamela Althoff and in the House by Rep. Sandra Pihos, and which passed unanimously, allows children and non-custodial parents to use electronic visitation technologies such as email, telephone, internet and video conferencing. Illinois became the sixth state to pass Virtual Visitation Legislation which could enable virtual visitation for incarcerated fathers. (Signed into law: August 11, 2009)

HB 4008, sponsored by Senate by Senator Martinez and Rep. Jehan Gordon, included the paternity provisions of SB 1628. It amended the Paternity Act to ensure that both parties would be clearly informed to their right to DNA testing before a voluntary acknowledgment of paternity is signed or a paternity order is entered. (Signed into law: August 14, 2009)

HB 2266, sponsored by Martinez and Rep. Ken Dunkin, amended the visitation interference section of the Criminal Code with the use of terms used in family cases today (i.e. parenting time and custody time). (Signed into law: August 25, 2009)```

None of this prevents the problems we've been discussing

It seems like a non sequitur

visitation was one of the issues we were discussing

none of these bills even discusses those issues