gercek its also unrealistic that the state can force people to care about their kids if they're so trivial as to purely want a divorce because they had a bad weekend

Im not talking about the State in any of this.

whatever measures the state could take to cure this are likely worse than the problem its trying to treat

thats the convo from the perspective of divorce though. should people care about their kids more? yes? i think thats a different convo though

It really isn't a separate conversation at all.. and the fact that there are people who think that these days tells you what the problem really is.

The issue with the rise in divorce rate is not just systemic but also Cultural.

I think I've said my piece. It's clear we won't see it the same way

Societies have gone to war over less

```thats the convo from the perspective of divorce though. should people care about their kids more? yes? i think thats a different convo though```


How does someone think that is honestly beyond me, you are thinking of children as separate from their parents. As if kids are detached from what goes on in the Family.
It's an absolutely bizarre way of thinking and calls into question the purpose of marriage and family building in the first place.

if a parent is going through a divorce proceeding without considering the kids clearly they consider themselves as seperate and i cant force my view onto them. I cant force people to be good parents and if they are determined in getting out i dont see any point in keeping a bad parent who hates being with their kids in that situation.

We live in a Society. @CronoSaturn

gamers rise up\

Yes you can. You can force people to change their behavior.

In fact they are doing that right now via financial incentives

People are divorcing more and marrying less.

i dont think its cost effective to try and pay people out to love their children and their are already significant financial incentives for marriage and kids

There's this thing called normative culture whereby people are able to remain within certain boundaries that ensure the survival of their Society and such that individuals live generally meaningful lives.
Now with his *you* don't have to *force* anybody.. a govt doesn't even come into the picture.
One important element of that is Family Building, and the societal shunning and shame associated with failure to do this, being Promiscuous or Unfaithful. We have slowly lost that in many important ways.. @CronoSaturn

I don't think it's cost effective for 50% of men who marry to pay alimony for life

which we agree on

and certainly people should be less slutty gercek

Here's a thought: punish people for bad behavior, and they will be less likely to do it. This is the basis of the justice system.

Punishment can actually include social shunning and shaming.

Psychological Punishment can be far more effective on several levels than Fines or some Jail time

Trying to fix marriage through material benefits in terms of more money to large extent I think are misguided.

Well, we used to use the law to support the traditional family, then we delegated most of the job to social pressure trusting that was sufficient to keep families intact, but now they've fucked the culture so bad that this broke down

Now both the state and the culture are untied against the family

I will agree with you on removal of the welfare state, child support benefits, community property laws, alimony etc

but to provide positive material benefits to families to stay together or have more kids is to misunderstand the problem to begin with

@Gerçek it doesn't have to be some draconian situation like if you are a bad wife we shoot you

The point is people respond to incentives be they financial or otherwise

We should set up society to promote and facilitate men and women forming long term partnerships and producing/raising children as a unit

i think by reforming divorce to be more equitable and a bit of a cultural swing as things normalise thats 90% of the way there

"reforming divorce to be more equitable" you see there's your first problem.

Divorce shouldn't be equitable. They should grant custody to the parent who's better capable to raise the children, and the other party shouldn't have to pay. Easy.

Land of the free https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAj9W0ntUMI

@Deleted User so you'd be ok with deadbeats going around knocking people up and scampering off?

i think regardless of gender whoever takes care of the kid should receive money in line with what the other parents contribution costs them, adjusted for what role they had in the seperation

@CronoSaturn deadbeat?