Message from @CronoSaturn

Discord ID: 533745194756210728


2019-01-12 20:24:14 UTC  

why is that a good thing?

2019-01-12 20:24:22 UTC  

it isnt, but it is a reality

2019-01-12 20:24:53 UTC  

Here's a thought: assault is a crime and if a man assaults a woman, he will be arrested

2019-01-12 20:25:40 UTC  

We are in this situation because women can divorce their husbands for any reason. They don't have to show that the husband assaulted them

2019-01-12 20:26:25 UTC  

right but if you are in an unhappy relationship and you are forced to stay there often the result is assault

2019-01-12 20:26:25 UTC  

@Gerçek That is a connection made purely made in your own head and is the product of some kind of wishful thinking. Denonucing an entire culture because they are "heathens" when your whole world-view is based on concepts tought out by individuals in this culture is just plain stupid. All the other shit you say about me claiming the homo side of Greek culture and concepst in Christianity is pure fabrication and a product of your imagination.

Foresight isn't something that is always right, nor does norms, laws and morality needs this. You'll have to produce some sort of proof for this. Also your analogy is so off, you can' compare something as complex as human society with that example (which also can be attributet to induction. A high fall = high movment speed = harder impact)

2019-01-12 20:26:40 UTC  

Often? Do you have statistics to back up that claim?

2019-01-12 20:27:21 UTC  

So what? Because marriage is hard and couples aren't always happy I guess kids don't get to have fathers anymore?

2019-01-12 20:27:24 UTC  

i dont on hand but i should think thats intuitive. if your stuck living with a person you hate there will likely be a punch on

2019-01-12 20:27:58 UTC  

this thinking that 100% of Divorces that ever happen are for legitimate reasons since the couple weren't *happy* at any given time assumes that things got better for them after they got Better.
Thats not even thinking of the children yet for whom divorce is almost never better... must divorces don't end up in Domestic Violence convictions even though the standards of evidence for these is below criminal threshold. @CronoSaturn

2019-01-12 20:27:58 UTC  

and kids get to have fathers who dont hit them

2019-01-12 20:28:14 UTC  

You make it sound like we have 2 options: either women are assaulted or kids don't have fathers

2019-01-12 20:28:50 UTC  

Exactly, the mother's sexual partners after a divorce are more likely to assault her and or her kids

2019-01-12 20:29:26 UTC  

Again, this isn't solved by no fault divorce, it's solved by making assault illegal...which it already is

2019-01-12 20:29:58 UTC  

@Gerçek im not predicating that assault precipitates all divorces but i dont think its unreasonable to think that if either party is forced to stay in a steadily deteriorating relationship, which you are clearly in if you are seeking a divorce, *someone* is very likely to become abusive

2019-01-12 20:30:31 UTC  

although i should clarify that girls are equally capable of filling that role

2019-01-12 20:31:12 UTC  

no they aren't. Theyre WAY more likely to

2019-01-12 20:31:22 UTC  

It's not even close

2019-01-12 20:31:39 UTC  

@Krille P. If you cannot predict an outcome with any level of certainty then why would you have any norm.
I'm not saying norms in all societies are always right, but they generally are better at putting out better outcomes in regards to Societal Sustainability than a society where everyone's bound to their whims without any direction.

2019-01-12 20:31:41 UTC  

More likely to assault their sexual partners and children

2019-01-12 20:32:50 UTC  

sure, in either case the relationship shouldnt be kept together just because of the kids because while i agree that the evidence shows that single parents are statistically less capable in providing the same outcomes for their kids, its far ahead of kids being raised in families where the environment is actively abusive

2019-01-12 20:33:31 UTC  

by allowing that relationship to end your cutting your losses

2019-01-12 20:34:24 UTC  

again, assault is already illegal and these people are arrested

2019-01-12 20:34:35 UTC  

none of this merits no fault divorce

2019-01-12 20:35:03 UTC  

this is a bait and switch, because some women are assaulted all women should be able to divorce and then suck funds from their ex husbands

2019-01-12 20:36:06 UTC  

Fathers are not expendable

2019-01-12 20:36:25 UTC  

Children are better off with fathers statistics prove this

2019-01-12 20:36:29 UTC  

@CronoSaturn

```@Gerçek im not predicating that assault precipitates all divorces but i dont think its unreasonable to think that if either party is forced to stay in a steadily deteriorating relationship, which you are clearly in if you are seeking a divorce, someone is very likely to become abusive```

I just don't see how you can be so confident in that every single case of divorce is legitimate since the alternative would always amount to violence not reconciliation, and that would be bad for the relationship.
I think you have the worst case scenario of a divorce in your head and you just think all of them are like that when they're not. A lot of Divorces are preventable, and there's no evidence to show that societies that don't allow Divorce at all are unsustainable.
Societies who are very Liberal with Divorce do appear to be Destructive.

2019-01-12 20:38:26 UTC  

so snake your suggesting the more positive outcome is we allow things to deteriorate to the point that someone has to be arrested and put in prison, in which case the child is raised in a single parent home, society has to pay to imprison that parent and they are no longer productive, just so you can be happy because you dont like divorce?

2019-01-12 20:39:41 UTC  

@Gerçek there are already significant measures to attempt reconciliation in the divorce process, if its unsuccessful and the person is still pushing for divorce it seems unrealistic that things can be patched up

2019-01-12 20:40:28 UTC  

Encouraging a culture where Marriage itself is seen as an Enterprise to create a Family and to raise kids i think is Healthy.
There are countless examples for people separating over the most selfish of reasons, "i want some change", "i wanted some space", entirely self serving without any regards to the Child i think is Toxic.

2019-01-12 20:40:47 UTC  

divorce is a lengthy and painful process where the person has to be pretty vehement and unco-operative towards looking at reconciliation, which also isnt really smiled on by the courts

2019-01-12 20:40:58 UTC  

Norms are not concsiously created for one part, and it does still not prove what you claim, norms are usually the result of necessity in an imediate situtaion and are often nothing more than a result of the material needs in the surrounding enviornment. People speculating about the resulut does not mean that they have any foresight. This is also the case of laws and morality, responses to imediate situations which we then makes a general law out of (the latter only applies to norms and morality as you can understand)

2019-01-12 20:42:15 UTC  

gercek its also unrealistic that the state can force people to care about their kids if they're so trivial as to purely want a divorce because they had a bad weekend

2019-01-12 20:42:47 UTC  

Im not talking about the State in any of this.

2019-01-12 20:42:48 UTC  

whatever measures the state could take to cure this are likely worse than the problem its trying to treat

2019-01-12 20:45:10 UTC  

thats the convo from the perspective of divorce though. should people care about their kids more? yes? i think thats a different convo though

2019-01-12 20:46:43 UTC  

It really isn't a separate conversation at all.. and the fact that there are people who think that these days tells you what the problem really is.

2019-01-12 20:47:22 UTC  

The issue with the rise in divorce rate is not just systemic but also Cultural.

2019-01-12 20:48:38 UTC  

I think I've said my piece. It's clear we won't see it the same way

2019-01-12 20:48:53 UTC  

Societies have gone to war over less