All in all, better to surrender while there's still a country to surrender and then gather forces, than to put them all to waste fighting until the end for a man that shot himself in a bunker.

One step back to give two steps forward.

Honestly, it's kinda hard to not think of people being bloodthirsty and hateful in a war. That's the effect of propaganda in people's minds, often being an overexaggeration of reality for the sake of "morale" to the country.

"hurr dun let d evil ugly soviet soldier raep ur wamen fit 4 her"

And then boom, one side is Saint Saintus the Holy Saint and the other is Lucifer Devil Satan Senior.

And I'll probably get something like "so ur sayin they wuz all angelz", which would actually be bullshit. I'm just saying propaganda didn't earn its name for giving people the raw unaltered truth.

you don't understand: once the tide was reversed, there was no "surrendering". there was no "aight lets end this fight, ill give you guys some stuff and let us keep our country". it was total war, it would only end with occupation. now, whether allied propaganda managed to completely change his image or not is a whole different thing. what we're talking about is that, once the war had begun, and especially after the setback in late 41 and early 42, there wasn't any "hanging the towel".

and in fact, the soviets were not only amped up by the conveniently-now-nationalistic propaganda, but also by having so many of their own killed. they wanted revenge, and that's natural. the point is that there was absolutely no room for this idea that "hitler should have sued for peace"

When one side surrenders, the fight is over.

lmao

yeah, let's surrender and let them kill us in war camps like it happened

let's surrender and be sent to gulags

and have our women raped

at least the europeans of then that fought to the end managed to keep their pride. what was left wasn't germany, isn't, and it's to be forgotten

Ah yes, nothing like a dead man's pride.

truly ain't

We should probably use that to heal the world.

nah, let's pretend our cowardice is being "rational" and "pragmatic"

Because living to fight another day is overrated.

>living to fight another day after the greatest conflict the world has ever seen, with your country obviously doomed to occupation and castration
are you thick or something, my man

do you think that any german soldier of the wehrmacht would have had a chance of "fighting another day"?

Just thinking more than about myself and instant gratification.

yeah, i'll take my dead pride over a living meek pragmatism any day

Wives lost husbands to that pride bullshit. Children lost fathers.

Both would say "fuck it, I want him back in my life".

there are things more important than happiness

such as this alien concept to you, pride

honor

Nothing is more important than happiness, because that is the ultimate goal of man.

wrong, hedonist

A miserable life is worth nothing.

it being the ultimate individualistic goal of an evolved ape doesn't make it the most important idea

all of your arguments could be used by the most debauched and degenerate of people

Funny that you would claim such concepts are alien to me, when I actually happen to be the one telling people about the importance of those things almost daily.

you might be misinforming them, then

But hey, let's assume everything, it's easier.

you seem to have no grasp of the concepts whatsoever

Hardly.

but hindsight is easy anyway

always 20/20

There's a time and a place for everything.