and 52

Yea cali had to create some with their splitting up proposals. As did the people wanting state of jefferson

A 51 star proposal has been around since at least the late 80s

Plus puerto rico constantly teasing attempting full statehood

fuck puerto rico, give it to based Phillipines

I would be down

But we had to free them per contract

any country wanting foreign aid should become a subsidiary of USA

reading people complaining in the /r/ socialism thread in reddit is mind numbing

Can you logically prove murder is immoral?
Seems like an obvious conclusion that murder is immoral but I've not seen anyone use logic to explain why.

fuck, if i was better atwords...

I imagine most people would agree that blowing up a tree isn't immoral but blowing up a person is immoral.

Is it immoral to kill yourself?

that depends on your view of selfishness

if you see selfishness as a bad thing, then murder is immoral. suicide is too, as it is 'self murder'

murder, specifically, is the act of killing another person willfully and with intent to do so. we recognise that murder with 'just cause' (self defense, defense of others, etc) is acceptable, but without these justifications murder is simply an extreme act of selfishness

Distill the exception.

Put another way, you noted it, but let's pull it out what differentiates acceptable from unacceptable.

ah. the act of preserving your own life, or the lives of others, is seen as a fundamental right of everyone. hence, 'just cause' is primarily granted when expressing this right

Justified is the part I was alluding to.

What is being justified? The imparting of detriment upon another entity. But how is it justified?

NOTE: You don't have to justify imparting benefit upon another entity.

its 2:30 am where i am, and thinking is not something my brain wants me to do at this moment. would you mind simplifying what you mean?

Which part?

It's 1:35am where I am but my brain is an asshole and won't let me sleep.

ah, i think i get what you said. you dont have to justify doing something good to someone else. but you do need to justify doing something bad. and the question you ask is why this is

am i correct?

Very correct

There are three moral states.

Immoral - Morally Nuetral - Moral

Benefiting someone is moral as it benefits.

Morally nuetral is where it neither benefits nor detriments another party.

For instance if I say hello to someone, it has done neither a positive nor negative thing to them.

I more or less have been asking people that very blunt question of how to morally prove murder is wrong because I'm curious how other people justify the claim to themselves.

I've developed an objective morality framework but I'm pretty curious how other people go about it in every day life even with obviously immoral things.

The justification part is where people seem to lose the plot.

Everything else I think people can wrap their heads around pretty easily when someone makes it explicit but justification part just seems complicated.

Mainly because there are three words associated: Justified/justification, just, justice

They are NOT the same things.

Since it is late and you alluded to being a bit tired for such a heavy topic, I'd like to ask you a different question that is related.