That's what I understood that Judean meant, like just the inhabitant of Judea. In Revelations 2:9 it refers to those who calls themselves Judeans as not being such but the synagogue of Satan which got me thinking into that the Pharisee are not from Judea.

Because it’s similar to the word croak?

I don't think I've seen any version calling jews(edomites/pharisees) as Judeans, which version is that? @Diomedes75 On the Latin version, Sacra Vulgata, they're called Judaeos, and there's even a book by St. Chrysostom called Adversus Judaeos where he talks about the so-called jews

In Greek the word for Jew or Judean is identical

It is part of my area of research. The distinction is a later one

There were those outside of Judea who would call themselves Judean to ally themselves.

It of course started out meaning those from the tribe of Judah but it gradually expanded.

St Paul tends to avoid the word when referring to himself.

Tribal distinctions seem to have almost disappeared by the time of Christ. Saint Paul calls himself a Benjaminite. Only four tribes appeared to be active in the NT, Levi, Judah, Benjamin and Asher.

@Natio It's in the Modern Greek New Testament which I've mentioned before. The exact verse is «και τη βλασφήμιαν των λεγόντων εαυτούς ότι είναι Ιουδαίοι, και δεν είναι, αλλά συναγωγή του Σατανά». So I assumed that these weren't the real Judeans. However in John 9:22 it referred to Judeans hunting down those who obeyed Jesus' word. That's when I got confused as to when Judeans meant inhabitant of Judea or Pharisee

It can mean Jew or Judean

In Greek there is no independent word for Jew or Judean.

Jew is a shortened term for Judean

There is a whole book on the issue. I forget it's name though

@Diomedes75 yeah your confusion makes total sense when there's not really a differentiation between the terms

Only Saint Paul is really picky on the differences.

@QuasiArche read the quotation I sent here earlier, it basically explains where the word "jew" came to existence

The Greeks/Romans didn't really make such distinctions.

And by the time of Christ tribal differences had disappeared so pharisaism was the dominant movement which found its strength on the synagogue system

It went from tribal to religo-political

As for the Edomite idea ... That's the first I've heard of that, and I studied Biblical Studies at the Gregorian in Rome. But I wouldn't discount it, I would have to do more research

The problem is making distinctions becomes complex and the words weren't settled. Even theological words in English have only been settled in the last 40 years. When theology was still taught in Latin, the English words varied quite a lot

there's a map on this aswell, I forgot to send

I see, so there's no way to distinguish Jew (Pharisee) from Judean during Christ's years

No real way without getting really technical and specific.

the kingdom of Edom

It's like calling someone an "American" do you mean Canadian, USA or Mexico.

yeah North American for that matter

or Latino

That's a better word North American

it's pretty messy, I just wish I had access to the old texts that did differentiate those groups

My whole area was on the idea and word of Judean ... I ended up getting so lost and confused I never finished my thesis

@Natio that's the problem there isn't much and what we have in Greek was written by non Jews, so they didn't care so much

*"By the time of Jesus the word Edom or Edomite had been translated by Greek and Latin into Ioudaios (a person pretending to be a Judean), Idumaean (an Edomite) and Iudaeus (a person living in Judea). The original KJV of the Bible, 1611, translated Edumaean-Judean into Iewes.*""

I think I'll look for the terms the guy mentioned on this quote really, the guy that sent on the other server I'm in wasn't really who wrote it

Unfortunately Flavius Josephus in Greek has disappeared in Latin he doesn't care for distinctions about tribes and whatnot. He uses Jews/Judeans as a catch all

I see

maybe you could look up the "Ioudaios" term in Greek

to see if you can find the source for it, since apparently it was used to refer to the people that pretended to be Judeans

Only Saint Paul seems to care about the distinctions somewhat and in that he never really calls himself a Jew. St Luke does though. It's funny reading how Saint Like describes Saint Paul and how St Paul describes himself

@Natio yeah ... It's a lot more complex than that. Non Judean Jews from outside of Judea would call themselves Judeans as a sign that they were allowed with the Kingdom of Judah/the Jews