the supermarket shipping thing reminded me of this video

seen it

Container ships are amazing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcom_McLean

All pay respect to the inventor of the shipping container

the only two stroke engine that deserves to exist is diesel two strokes used in ships

imo

but yeah, arguing on the basis of the status quo doesnt really make sense because things can and do change all the time

All I asked for was one example

changes occur in predictive patterns

and i dont have any

because it would be a first in human history

but a lot of things were firsts in human history

so whats your point?

like change occurring doesnt mean that the state of reality just magically shifts

a car was never in space before

doesnt deny its possibility

Again

Technology != social order

but its the same thing

You can change our material conditions

Not our human nature

yeah but were talking about having a civilization without a state

in terms of argument

social order changes all the time

look at the roman civilization

it lasted for *centuries*

and a car been thrust into space isnt an unpredictable change

About two thousand years, yeah

and things have changed so much in only a few of those

yes but it just gave away to smaller states

And what was the Romans' most important contribution to the West?

The state

yeah romans refined statecraft

but the fact is it *fell*

and?

it feel and gave way to more states

Senate got the ruler killed

the change ancom would make would be equivalent to the fall of the roman empire, in terms of *probability* according to your argument

civilizations being coupled with a state that derives all its authority from violence is something that has existed in all of history

in fact, it would be even more probable