Message from @DOLBATIC

Discord ID: 489469939514867733


2018-09-12 15:26:25 UTC  

cheers

2018-09-12 15:28:36 UTC  

five sure. also check out comments on society of the spectacle if you haven't yet I love that one

2018-09-12 15:29:22 UTC  

Situationism feels a lot like intellectual jerk-off to me

2018-09-12 15:32:14 UTC  

And it also contributed to the conversion of pre-1970s capitalism into global liberalism

2018-09-12 15:32:59 UTC  

thats definitely not wrong, but I think the comments are way better than the original book

2018-09-12 15:33:16 UTC  

and from the original, I love the phrase on page one: "the liar has lied to himself" very strong image to me

2018-09-12 15:33:48 UTC  

I like to compare it to descartes evil demon, and i think-> instead of thinking the demon is tricking you, what if you are the demon, tricking yourself?

2018-09-12 15:33:54 UTC  

I love this idea so much

2018-09-12 16:09:03 UTC  

Well, actually, I found an article Clouscard wrote on Baudrillard

2018-09-12 16:09:07 UTC  

French though

2018-09-12 16:10:05 UTC  

Je mappele gay

2018-09-12 16:10:12 UTC  

Wait no

2018-09-12 16:12:17 UTC  

@nagarjuna Even if that article is mostly yet another critique of Baudrillard

2018-09-12 16:14:00 UTC  

@DOLBATIC that looks awesome I'm just an insufferable JB sycophant because I haven't read more haha. His writing is super contradictory so the parts I like are contradicted by other parts haha. My aim isn't to rep him so much as bring him up because that's where my thoughts are, wanna move forward

2018-09-12 16:14:40 UTC  

I see JB kind of in the skeptical tradition, which I really enjoy. The problem of how to apply skepticism politically is the huge problem but one I want to confront

2018-09-12 16:14:48 UTC  

He's seeing Baudrillard as the quintessence of modern bourgeois thought, which he claims no longer ignores class struggle (as in the case of Valéry and Alain) but simply recuses it without refuting it

2018-09-12 16:15:16 UTC  

"hypocritical innocence"

2018-09-12 16:15:55 UTC  

Baudrillard, to him, is a good example of the transition of the Zeitgeist ever since the 1968 "Libération"

2018-09-12 16:16:23 UTC  

Which would be a gnoseological regression

2018-09-12 16:18:47 UTC  

His main point is that Sartre, who accepts class struggle but encloses it into intellectual bourgeois leftism, is at the source of this transition

2018-09-12 16:19:41 UTC  

Prioiritizing the transcendental ego over class struggle

2018-09-12 16:20:04 UTC  

Yes I think that's a common view. Baudrillard visited Japan one time and people there said "we don't need you anymore because your thought is just how things are now"

2018-09-12 16:20:42 UTC  

I would be interested to see if he defends his concept of class struggle

2018-09-12 16:25:30 UTC  

The second stepof that transition is then structuralism which goes around the dialectical process of history

2018-09-12 16:27:01 UTC  

Third step of the pretense of Marxism to actually combat dialectical materialism: the infamous Freudo-Marxists (e.g. Marcuse), the fusion of two dogmatic deviations, the repressive State and the father figure

2018-09-12 16:28:31 UTC  

Thus, the middle classes (those of capitalist State monopolization) can still only fight dialectical materialism *in the name of Marxism and knowledge*

2018-09-12 16:30:17 UTC  

Claiming to be repressed by the old bourgeoisie, these new classes give birth to "the market of desire"

2018-09-12 16:32:13 UTC  

It is now possible to liquidate Marxism and replace with bourgeois intellectual identitarian leftism, through the fourth step of this process: the appearance of the "new philosophers"

2018-09-12 16:33:01 UTC  

Now it is no longer its deviations but Marxism itself which is condemned

2018-09-12 16:33:51 UTC  

Liberalism has succeeded in equating Marxism and fascism

2018-09-12 16:34:09 UTC  

Now Baudrillard, the child of this intellectual evolution, comes into play

2018-09-12 16:35:11 UTC  

Baudrillard's scepticism is seen by Clouscard as a worldly practice without end

2018-09-12 16:35:37 UTC  

Behind the denunciation of seduction, there is simply profound assent

2018-09-12 16:36:52 UTC  

This philosophical renouncement expresses the victory of the new middle classes, in the new Zeitgeist of the cultural worldly "leftist"

2018-09-12 16:37:44 UTC  

A "bon chic bon genre" thought which leads to stagnation

2018-09-12 16:37:57 UTC  

I'm curious how this plays in the marxs idea that capitalism leads to communism. I mean negating capitalism is the same as completing the project of capitalism for Marx, no?

2018-09-12 16:38:49 UTC  

And then what is clouscard saying we should be doing, what does class struggle look like in these updated conditions? I'll read both those articles tho five sure

2018-09-12 16:39:52 UTC  

His ideas for action are explained at the end of the first link i sent you

2018-09-12 16:40:58 UTC  

The *praxis* must be adapted to the new modalities of capitalism (avoiding both Classical Marxist orthodoxy and the reformism adopted by the PCF in the late 20th c.)

2018-09-12 16:45:44 UTC  

Reformism being the transition into social democracy (and frankly, liberalism) the PCF engaged into, following the PS