Message from @DA GOMMIE JOO

Discord ID: 437779886258782208


2018-04-23 00:39:41 UTC  

"Sankara's first priorities after taking office were feeding, housing and giving medical care to his people"

2018-04-23 00:40:30 UTC  

I honestly don’t know anything about the topic of “Shinmin” so I don’t feel it is correct for me to argue for or against anything I don’t know

2018-04-23 00:40:41 UTC  

well it's not north korea that's for damn sure

2018-04-23 00:41:01 UTC  

it was an anarchist area in manchuria that lasted for a few years before getting invaded by imperial japan

2018-04-23 00:41:05 UTC  

and it was pretty lit

2018-04-23 00:41:36 UTC  

Ehh, imo, anarchism can work... but not for advanced societies

2018-04-23 00:41:45 UTC  

It’s for more rural communities

2018-04-23 00:42:18 UTC  

(Sorry for that typo there)

2018-04-23 00:43:15 UTC  

There is no economy system that is perfect for everyone in every corner of the world.

2018-04-23 00:43:31 UTC  

Capitalism doesn’t work for everyone, I will very easily concede that

2018-04-23 00:43:46 UTC  

"but not for advanced societies"
welcome to donbass

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308995540782284817/437775559532216340/DNR-feature-image.png

2018-04-23 00:44:25 UTC  

Wanting anarchism and having anarchism are 2 very different things.

2018-04-23 00:44:36 UTC  

I guess that modern ukraine isn't advanced

2018-04-23 00:44:59 UTC  

because they have communism in donbass

2018-04-23 00:50:48 UTC  

Well seeing how the economy of the Ukraine today was created mostly out of expansion of western business practices (capitalism) after the Iron Curtain fell, it would probably see a huge economic loss if it fully reverted to communism. Take for example if the state of California became a fully communist state (ignoring all the civil rights it would have to break to achieve that). The rest of the US would still be around to support the state and their massive social welfare programs. Having just one region fully communist while having the rest of the nation foot the bill, isn’t really a good way to support a theory

2018-04-23 00:50:54 UTC  

But let me ask you this...

2018-04-23 00:53:35 UTC  

Why are you in favor of stealing from people? Communism preaches taking the wealth of wealthy people and giving it to people who didn’t deserve it. For the sake of equality and fairness. That is called stealing. You will have to rob and kill to get that from people and I wanna know... why do you support that?

2018-04-23 00:55:31 UTC  

"why are you in favor of stealing from people?"
why are you?

2018-04-23 01:00:46 UTC  

Well if you’re not going to answer my question... thats fine... but please explain to me how capitalism is seen as stealing when then the basis of its working is when 2 **consenting** individuals agree on a trade of goods/services/labor.

2018-04-23 01:00:58 UTC  

how does the businessman make his profit?

2018-04-23 01:01:23 UTC  

the worker makes a value
the owner takes this value and gives back a portion as wages
the surplus that is taken is profit

2018-04-23 01:01:25 UTC  

blatant theft

2018-04-23 01:02:02 UTC  

hmm
taking a portion of someone's wealth for arbitrary reasons
what can we think of that's like that?

2018-04-23 01:13:32 UTC  

A businessman/woman makes a profit by selling goods and services that people want or need. Phones, hair cuts, car washes, massages. They then hire people to help them sell these things or make them. They come to an agreement. Person X hires person Y and pays them Z amount per hour or by wage. It is a consenting agreement. There is nobody forcing person person Y to work for person X or they will be executed.

Th value is not made by the owner. Value is created by the free market. If a business owner sells a banana for $100 because he thinks they are valued that much, how many bananas do you think he will sell? None. Because society does not value a banana to be worth $100. The reason Apple can sell iPhones for hundreds of dollars, is because the free markets agree that iPhones have that much value. Steve Jobs didn’t sit at his desk and say that in iPhone will cost $600 because he said so.

The profit made by the business is then owned by the business. They use that money for paying staff, buying new inventory, making products, maintaining facilities, donating to other organizations that promote their ideals, and saving some for rainy days down the line.

If the workers want more money, they can organize strikes and demand higher pay like they did in the US before. Thats is why we have trade and labor unions. There are things they can do to have higher pay that doesnt include reverting to communism. But even then, there is a limit to this. A person flipping burgers at a McDonald’s is not doing the labor that the majority of society sees as necessary for $15 per hour.

2018-04-23 01:14:16 UTC  

There is not a single person dictating to everyone how things are, who gets money, or how much things cost. It is determined by the free market and general public.

2018-04-23 01:15:12 UTC  

Now... i explained why Capitalism is not considered stealing from people. Can you please answer my question.

**Why are you in favor of stealing from people? Communism preaches taking the wealth of wealthy people and giving it to people who didn’t deserve it. For the sake of equality and fairness. That is called stealing. You will have to rob and kill to get that from people and I wanna know... why do you support that?**

2018-04-23 01:53:14 UTC  

Capitalism is not voluntary

2018-04-23 01:53:30 UTC  

Are you forced to work for someone?

2018-04-23 01:53:41 UTC  

Does someone point a gun at you and say “work”?

2018-04-23 01:54:08 UTC  

If you would be in poverty without being a wage-slave, then yes, it is involuntary

2018-04-23 01:54:40 UTC  

Which is the situation most people would be in under capitalism

2018-04-23 01:55:09 UTC  

@killsometime someone points a gun at you and says "pay the rent or get out"

2018-04-23 01:55:26 UTC  

@Firefly That dosen't happen though.

2018-04-23 01:55:52 UTC  

That is because you signed a contract **voluntarily** saying you will pay X amount per month to live there

2018-04-23 01:56:18 UTC  

@killsometime No, it happens without contract

2018-04-23 01:56:36 UTC  

Give me one person in history that allows someone to rent anywhere without a contract

2018-04-23 01:56:39 UTC  

Just one

2018-04-23 01:56:42 UTC  

Literally one

2018-04-23 01:56:43 UTC  

@killsometime To be fair, sometimes it is more obligitory, than it is voluntary.

2018-04-23 01:56:55 UTC  

@maostravelagent who are the “most people” living in poverty under capitalism in America?