Message from @Tonight at 11 - DOOM

Discord ID: 620943916933316608


2019-09-10 11:25:40 UTC  

But again: this would not solve your issues even if it did work like you say. It'd just prevent them from getting worse or, more realistically, make the process of them becoming worse slower.

2019-09-10 11:25:46 UTC  

The senate is not the house

2019-09-10 11:25:51 UTC  

they don propose laws

2019-09-10 11:25:54 UTC  

they don change laws

2019-09-10 11:25:57 UTC  

As those are the interests that should be represented at the district-level, and those interests should be preserved moving forward into the Senate, but as it stands now, that's not the case.

2019-09-10 11:26:01 UTC  

they just need to agree to laws

2019-09-10 11:27:04 UTC  

They simply don't have the tools to reverse past changes

2019-09-10 11:27:11 UTC  

s'not their Jeb

2019-09-10 11:27:25 UTC  

Much of those past changes can quickly be declared as unconstitutional.

2019-09-10 11:27:33 UTC  

well ok

2019-09-10 11:27:41 UTC  

There is nothing stopping political parties taking control of those districts- the only reason they don't at the moment is they have no need to

2019-09-10 11:27:43 UTC  

if we have a magic wand we can do a lot

2019-09-10 11:27:43 UTC  

I agree

2019-09-10 11:28:11 UTC  

You just need an independent Judiciary, no longer politicized by a Senate that's no longer subject to populism.

2019-09-10 11:28:22 UTC  

but to declare something unconstitutional you need to stack the court with your ppl

2019-09-10 11:28:24 UTC  

that takes time

2019-09-10 11:28:30 UTC  

do you have a plan to do that?

2019-09-10 11:28:51 UTC  

or are you just saying "we just need to move this mountain 7 km that way!"?

2019-09-10 11:29:13 UTC  

Yes, the Senate provides for the function of approving Judicial appointees.

2019-09-10 11:29:20 UTC  

*approval*

2019-09-10 11:29:26 UTC  

not appointment

2019-09-10 11:30:00 UTC  

That's correct.

2019-09-10 11:30:12 UTC  

so it's still by no means power to do things

2019-09-10 11:30:21 UTC  

it's power to prevent things from occurring

2019-09-10 11:30:26 UTC  

*which is their job*

2019-09-10 11:30:44 UTC  

they are not about changing the status quo

2019-09-10 11:30:50 UTC  

you want to change the status quo

2019-09-10 11:31:09 UTC  

you won't do this by changing the senate (unless you change their prerogatives too)

2019-09-10 11:34:04 UTC  

Well, given they rely on popular elections, they are subject to whatever changes are wished upon that status quo, which is why we have seen their powers shift our country toward directions we don't desire. They have no buffer providing for sovereignty, to act independent of popular opinions which are nearly always flawed and subject to long-term consequences that far out-weigh their immediate gains, and as a result, no longer does the Judiciary.

2019-09-10 11:35:28 UTC  

Sure, but this does not discredit what I said : they wouldn't have the power to change anything *back*. Just to slow down further change.

2019-09-10 11:35:50 UTC  

That was the whole purpose of making them popularly elective over appointive, to subject them to those forces that'd change the status quo, and so far, that's amounted to expansionism and perpetual violations of the values this nation is founded upon.

2019-09-10 11:40:39 UTC  

It does to some extent; they can't propose new legislation, but they can reject it, and by nature of their character change would, over time, ensure we end up with a Judiciary stacked with apolitical and constitutionalist judges, to the extent of textualism, which would guarantee a nearly complete dismantling of the federal government, with much of the previous legislation you're referencing as unalterable becoming subject to judicial review. Also, you're forgetting much of the federal bureaucracy operates on renewal, and thus they're not permanent.

2019-09-10 11:41:31 UTC  

"nature of their character change would, over time, ensure we end up with a Judiciary stacked with apolitical and constitutionalist judges"

2019-09-10 11:41:32 UTC  

no

2019-09-10 11:41:37 UTC  

They can also reject appropriations.

2019-09-10 11:41:55 UTC  

it would just mean the less radical anti-constitutionalists would get accepted

2019-09-10 11:42:12 UTC  

they still don choose the candidates

2019-09-10 11:42:53 UTC  

"Also, you're forgetting much of the federal bureaucracy operates on renewal, and thus they're not permanent."
I'm not forgetting that, I didn't know. Not a Mutt.

2019-09-10 11:43:02 UTC  

That's correct.

2019-09-10 11:47:15 UTC  

Now, going back to the neglecting of economic development interests among many districts, including those of liberal support, this would largely cease to continue, meaning you address some of the most fundamental reasons why people have continued to chart the path of populism among both the left and right. So, I don't see it as an immediate solution, but one that tempers our ailments moving forward, @Tonight at 11 - DOOM. Over all, it's a long-term solution toward shifting the balance of power over to the many, neglected districts across the U.S., out of the hands of the few in a position of economic scale. The long-term outcome of uniformed growth across this country is a counter to current policy motives. Think about how that would change us moving forward.

2019-09-10 12:00:36 UTC  

And, @Eccles, I'm not sure what you mean by claiming the party system would take control of appointments away from the district. I see this as a way to change the character of the parties, as party leadership is found in the Senate, something you inherently change by way of this alteration.