Message from @Jake the Exile
Discord ID: 641130572684722190
Atheists claim that God does not exist. That's a positive claim, as in "I believe God does not exist". The "I believe" and "does not" makes it a positive claim.
Agnostics don't claim anything about God one way or another. They don't make any positive claims.
So atheists are believers of an idea, whereas agnostics are not.
"Atheists claim that God does not exist" - Fuck off. Only gnostic atheists do that.
Agnostic atheists merely think it's unlikely. They don't make a positive claim.
Gnostic atheism is the foundation of atheism, it's literally the pillar of the idea.
Well, according to you. Most of atheists aren't gnostic atheists.
Only fedoras are.
If you say gnostic atheists are fringe or a subgroup of atheism, then atheism wouldn't realistically have any branches at all.
wow I didn't realize quite how much debate this would kick up...
I don't know if they are "fringe" or not, but they are definitely a subgroup.
Look, just because most people believe in X or Y or Z doesn't mean the pillar of an idea is suddenly no longer the pillar
Most people are pretty much not informed at all about these things
By **DEFINITION** of what "subgroup" is, if agnostic atheists exist (even if by one member) then gnostic atheism becomes a subgroup of atheism.
Ok, let me try to explain something here
If one fucking agnostic atheist is in existence, then gnostic atheism is just a fucking **subgroup** of atheism.
I know you are offended by this **FACT**.
Facts don't care about your feelings.
The reason why the term "agnostic atheism" was coined in the first place is because the idea of atheism evolved over time as more people became atheist. It started out as a rejection of God, and evolved into a rejection of the supernatural. But later it evolved further, because more and more self-proclaimed atheists appeared (most of them just average Joes, not scholars), and they realized that most of them are agnostic, not atheist.
fedorasexuals
If all those people hadn't claimed to be atheists (most of them falsely), this distinction would've never had to be made.
too many As for atheist or agnostic
It's like political theory, it evolves over time, and unfortunately a lot of bad ideas enter the ring.
Many ideas that are just plain stupid
It happened to a lot of philosophies, too
Someone has a useful idea, everyone else tears it apart until it loses its meaning
Not sure what I should make of that
Supposed to make me laugh?
Aren't you a gnostic atheist?
No
So a theist, then.
No
So not atheist and not theist. Not-theist?
Yeah
Not theist? Or not-theist?
Both is correct 😄
I mean, if there's a different between a-theist and non-theist, there must be difference between not theist and not-theist.
I'm not theist, I'm not atheist, I'm simply agnostic. I'm open to the idea that God could exist, because if it's impossible to prove or disprove him, then that's the end of the debate basically.
Gnostic or agnostic not-theist?
agnostic