Message from @Thought Police
Discord ID: 331450001936875520
trade will result in capital if you manage to get excess
how do you define capital?
in an ancom society
if a group started accumilating capital, would you stop them?
resources
etc
^ in catalonia they used to shoot people who exchanged goods
capital is not accumulation of resources
truly, a free society ;' )
@Sampuka i know they have the same goal but im saying the supposedly different method of achieving it is practically the same too
it is in a marxist view a social relation of production
yeah no matter how you define it, if you live in an ancom society and you accumulate resources and other people voluntarily come and help you (work for you), do you stop them?
who am I even to stop them? but also no
do people in ancom become part of a hivemind and so there's no need for someone to organize things?
cnt-fai controlled everything, but wasnt called a state for some reason
assuming you have the power to do that
a point socialists make is that it is in your material interests to not work for anyone
it isn't trade in the sense you're thinking of
when working for someone, whether the state or a private company, you HAVE to be paid less than what you labor
the economy won't go from one of non-class to class in this sense
it's mutual aid by which you produce and give in order to be able to take
not bartering
>you HAVE to be paid less
Is that wrong in on itself?
nothing is "wrong", but it is against your material interests
it's a time preference thing, getting a part of your labor now instead of all of it later
employer invests money now to get his gains later
employee works now to get money now
but the employee could also work now to get all his labors worth now
well, he cant in our society but that's the point
I don't how that's a real problem
Suppose a company is making 1bn in excess
and they pay you 200k a year while you do minimal to no work
They still are profiting insanely due to their product success and the employees get paid insane amounts BUT according to marxist theory, they are getting paid for "less"
I think that line of reasoning is similar to this one:
Imagine these scenarios: you punch someone, you slap, you push his face, you gently touch his face
It starts from extreme violence to simply touching him
But in marxist line of reasoning, all of those is like a punch
It's more conceptual, if what you are being paid is good, then you can have a wealthy life
say no if you are a white supremacist or say yes if you are not a white supremacist
gud
what we are talking about here is the marxist sense of exploitation, and I'll try to explain it the best I can.
people say that ceo's get more money than the workers
They do
but i say that workers get less money than the ceos
:>
They do as well
people say funny things
but i say things funny