Message from @Chalin

Discord ID: 378341162920181761


2017-11-09 22:17:03 UTC  

Orthodoxes even got a different from Catholic version of Purgatory, the aerial toll houses/mytarstva, where they're tempted by them before deciding their fate of going to Heaven.

2017-11-09 22:20:41 UTC  

Lucifer does exists in Islam and so do the devils. But yeah you're right about the non-existence of fallen angels
In Islam, he's a demon. Demons (Jinn), like humans, have free will, whereas angels don't. That's why Muslims claim he wasn't an angel, as angels are basically God's practically-mindless pawns (still ultimately good though) who do his bidding. One of the biggest sins in Islam is to contact a demon (be it through magic or whatever) as well as it being a huge sin on a demon to possess a human
A devil is basically an evil demon.
I know that in Christianity, all demons are all evil, there isn't the idea of a "good" demon @National Trotskyist

2017-11-10 00:12:56 UTC  

From what I've heard, Lucifer is not Satan, and that assigning that name to Satan is something that arose from misinterpretation and mistranslation of old Hebrew and Christian texts

2017-11-10 00:13:20 UTC  

A misinterpretation that has become ingrained in mainstream theology

2017-11-10 00:16:25 UTC  

According to which beliefs? @Chalin

2017-11-10 00:16:53 UTC  

Well as far as I'm aware, the name Lucifer is used by Christians

2017-11-10 00:18:06 UTC  

It was the Latin word for morning star

2017-11-10 00:18:21 UTC  

Used in some passage in the book of Isaiah

2017-11-10 00:18:32 UTC  

The arabic name for Lucifer is iblees. The Arabic name for Satan is Sheytan. In Islam, they're the same being. I don't know if they are or aren't according to Christian/Judaic beliefs, but I always assumed they were

2017-11-10 00:21:59 UTC  

Lucifer original appeared within theological scripture as "morning star" in Isaiah 14:12

2017-11-10 00:22:19 UTC  

The word Lucifer comes from the Latin word for that phrase, apparently

2017-11-10 00:23:05 UTC  

The name Lucifer didn't really begin to become used interchangeably with Satan in Christianity until the King James Bible came into being

2017-11-10 00:24:50 UTC  

Or the publication of Dantes Inferno

2017-11-10 00:24:54 UTC  

I can't figure out which

2017-11-10 00:25:01 UTC  

I'm not well versed in the subject

2017-11-10 00:25:44 UTC  

I just now that the name "Lucifer" itself seems to be something widely misused to the point that the fact that it's misused has become meaningless

2017-11-10 00:28:01 UTC  

Yeah, the only mention of the name "Lucifer" in the Christian Bible was actually in reference to Nebuchadnezzar II, oddly enough

2017-11-10 00:28:26 UTC  

The Babylonian king who conquered the holy land

2017-11-10 00:30:12 UTC  

I don't know jack shit about Islamic scripture, other than that much of it parallels other Abrahamic scripture

2017-11-10 00:30:57 UTC  

Oh wait I think I remember something. Iblees was used before his pride took over him, before he became evil
I really don't know enough details about the Bible version of him aside from stuff I've heard here and there such as him being a fallen angel and so on. And I know the Bible has been changed/reworded but that's it

2017-11-10 00:32:42 UTC  

Yea, upon a but more reading, it seems that it was at some point in the European medieval age that the word "Lucifer" generally came to be used as the name as the devil prior to his fall from heaven

2017-11-10 00:33:31 UTC  

It parallels it cause in the Quran, God says he sent the Torah to the Israelis through Musa (Moses), then the Bible through Issa (Jesus), the son of the virgin Mariam, but every time he sent a book, the people changed it eventually. We believe they were all sent by God through an angel named Jibrael, they're just changed/editted

2017-11-10 00:33:58 UTC  

Really? So Christians also used Lucifer as his name before he fell?

2017-11-10 00:35:46 UTC  

By some

2017-11-10 00:35:55 UTC  

It's kinda used all over the place

2017-11-10 00:36:13 UTC  

Depends on the source, I can't get a clear picture

2017-11-10 00:36:23 UTC  

I've read some of the Bible but I ought to sit down and read it through

2017-11-10 00:37:47 UTC  

Unless you read the King James version, I doubt you'd find much use of the name "Lucifer"

2017-11-10 00:38:36 UTC  

Hmm

2017-11-10 00:39:09 UTC  

I was considering KJV

2017-11-10 00:39:26 UTC  

Since that's the most common one, or so I've heard

2017-11-10 00:39:32 UTC  

Also, it's not explicitly said that the serpent in the Garden of Eden was actually the devil

2017-11-10 00:39:39 UTC  

Not in the Bible, at least

2017-11-10 00:39:55 UTC  

Oh, we believe it was

2017-11-10 00:39:56 UTC  

The New International Version is also a common one

2017-11-10 00:40:02 UTC  

Though I'd have to recheck

2017-11-10 00:40:10 UTC  

It's basically assumed that the serpent is the devil

2017-11-10 00:40:30 UTC  

Who else would be leading God's creations astray

2017-11-10 00:40:43 UTC  

How could the devil have been in heaven

2017-11-10 00:40:57 UTC  

A preacher will tell you that it's pretty obvious that the serpent was the devil

2017-11-10 00:42:54 UTC  

You'd find that a lot of what is taught by Christian theologians is based upon assumptions and inferences made about the text, rather than litteral translation