Message from Builderelf in /leftypol/ International #english
To the socialist the likes of Stalin, Mao, Kim il sung etc class came first but had very strong patriotism and nationalism
That is true.
Hitlerism is more akin to social democracy and is the forebearer of the current nordic model
Nordic countries used to be mildly ethnocentric as well
So while its not you're waspy capitalism
Its still capitalism
So in other words, you cocede that it is.
@Krieg#0336 I've always thought that Nazi Germany was a corporatist economy where the Government had a lot of influence over capitalist monopolies, nowhere near a social democracy ala Nordic countries. Also, on Mousillini being a National Syndicalist, from what I heard he abandond Syndicalism quite quickly. Correct me if I'm wrong, however.
And for the record, I would personally accept Strasserism as a form of socialism, albeit a bastard child of socialism and fascism.
Corpratism was more of a mousillini and pelley thing.
Any IWW member in here?
What is your reading list of Strasserism?
@Builderelf corporatism by definition is the organization of society based on collectives ie like in italy businesses of the same industry would be merged into one. They called it fascist syndicalism.
@Тхе Западни Србин#1770 https://revolutionarynationalsocialism.wordpress.com/
@Krieg#0336 But I thought the key thing of syndicalism was that it was owned by the workers, not the government?
Yeah, I’m in the IWW. I’m new though, just joined last month @stratagast
lulz yeah germany was basically a racist social democracy
mussolini was a staunch sorelianist
I disagree with that.
What do you mean by that?
If by mixed, you mean both government and owned properties with a common goal, then sure.
What relevance does this have?
@Builderelf I think that when people mention fascism, they usually get the idea of italy, and how it had some corpratism, but they forget, that italian fascism, national socialism, legionaireism, falange, and more, had many differences, with a common idea.
all of those except hitlerian NS yes
capitalism is to individual
communism to class
fascism to state
N"S" to race
Unless it is somewhere like vichy france where it was a german/italian occupied place, it would most likely have an independant system.
Okay, from what I see and what I'm researching right now, I could definetly see @Krieg#0336's arguement for Germany being a "racist social democracy". For instance:
-Taxation was high
-Government spending was through the roof
-Private business was allowed to operate
-Healthcare was a thing
-Keynes himself LIKED the Germany economy
-Pensions were even given out, apparently
However, I'm also seeing elements of totalitarianism in there. For instance, State-Run Trade Unions designed to squeeze out productivity in factories. Also, military spending took was as high as 32% of the budget-- that doesn't sound like a Social Democracy at all! Additionally, the reason that public projects such as job programs and industry protectionism seems to be mainly for the sake of increasing productivy of home industries, not for the sake of basic human rights, as it is in Nordic countries.
So in other words, I'd place Hitlerist economics as an Authoritarian-Right version of Social Democracy. Not quite corporatism, not quite social democracy, a strange kind of militaritic totalitarian welfare state.
@Krieg#0336 Fascism and national socialism do not believe in devolution of the class, which is something that communism and socialism want, but rather they want both the worker, and the owner, and the government cooperating for the benefit of the nation.
why yes, this is true. I know a fascist friend that claims that fascism calls for "Class Collaboration, not Class Warfare", so thats correct @Deleted User
well duh its easier to work together when one class isn't fucking the other