Message from Tyler0317 in Fitness #martial-arts
My apologies to the other observers for my tangent.
When the "modern" olympics resumed in 1896, the sports were recomposed. Wrestling by historic rules was won by submission OR by pin.
Modern wrestling ruleset was made more sporting, with victories by pin or by points.
Once upon a time, what is now called Catch Wrestling(catch meaning 'Submission' in English of the time) was normal wrestling. Teddy Roosevelt, and Brigham Young were known to be enthusiastic Catch Wrestlers in their time.
Have you heard of Crying "uncle"? This was the way one verbally submitted in wrestling. Much like the now ubiquitous tapout of modern BJJ.
Catch Wrestlers became famous at carnivals in the early 1900s, and several of them branched out into Pro Wrestling, Promoters learned the value of having choregraphed matches, and the PRO Wrestling(Hulk Hogan) of our era descends from this alteration of the art of wrestling.
Ironically, Several wrestlers of the early 1900's ended up in Japan, where fight tournaments were a big ticket. Men like Karl Gotch made a name for themselves beating Japs, leading to European wrestling becoming a widely valued martial art in Japan. Called Shoot Wrestling, shoot being slang for "real" as opposed to fake pro wrestling.
The modern MMA promotion Shooto comes from "Shoot wrestling" in Japan.
Just like how foreign and exotic influences became fashionable in America(Karate, Tae Kwon Do,, BJJ), European wresting became fashionable in Japan, Kazushi Sakuraba being a notable descendant of Catch Wresting, and defeating 4 different members of the famous Gracie BJJ family.
--- My overall point being, Europe had it's own martial art, Catch Wrestling, which is of equal or greater standing to the more popular grappling arts of today, BJJ/Judo. We ought to be proud of it, and I hope that we are able to perpetuate our own martial art into the future, rather than BJJ.
Tangent complete. Thank you for your patience.
Some links to follow.@Aleis⊕ccidentalis
Although I have never studied it I have been fasciated by catch wrestling myself because of the same reasons you listed @Tyler0317 as well as because of my fandom of pro wrestling as a kid and the cross over that used to exist.
@Tyler0317 I may have already said this but I think BJJ came more from catch wrestling styles in vale tudo than it did from tradionall JJ
@Deleted User mma/vale tudo has certainly had a positive effect on bjj. Keeping it rooted in practicality and effectiveness.
BJJ never had a weird kung fu death touch phase.
@Tyler0317 hey brother ... i’ve been training BJJ for over 10 years… And I really enjoyed the above comments you made about how catch wrestling is “our European martial art.” I have never thought of it that way. I’ve been training shoot- boxing for eight years solid (simultaneously) and it’s very similar to what you are describing but again I must admit that the ethnic component (tradition) was lost on me until now. Good looking out. I look forward to more passionate posts about this.
I need to take my own advice. Catch wrestling doesn't exist in my state, which I suppose is an opportunity for someone like me to make it happen.
I competed in amateur MMA for a few years, but can't really claim to be an actual martial artist.
The specialized skillset, passing down the tradition and philosophies really appeals to me.
That is something BJJ does way better than western martial arts.
Carlos and Helio were White.
Helio also sounds like a traditionalist or fascist here.
"Nature did not create men and women by mistake, but for each one to do his or her part. The man takes care of the woman and the woman takes care of the children, who will be the men of tomorrow."
How do you guys do your solo martial arts practice? Where do you put it in your workout routine?
@Gaius Mucius Scaevola I do bag drills after my workout.
I've found that cardio after the workout reduces the DOMS(muscle soreness) the following day.
@Tyler0317 That's some great history. I'd like to learn it myself or teach it to my kids. It's disappointing that many Whites don't realize that we have our own history of martial arts, and they think it is something unique to only Asian countries.
@Aleis⊕ccidentalis Yeah, I thought that martial arts were rampant in Asia, but we westerners seem far more interested in this stuff than they are. I was in the Philippines for awhile, and never could find a Kali school, but western Boxing schools abounded.
I follow a Youtuber who started an MMA school in China, who points out that essentially no Chinese do Kung Fu any more. It's just a historical curiosity for them.
@Aleis⊕ccidentalis As for catch wrestling, the only instructor/affiliate system that I know of is CSW Combat Submission Wrestling, run by Erik Paulson.
good pics 👍
Pretty damn bummed Stipe got wobbled in the first round
Rematch should be good though
I'm not surprised. Cormier is genuinely the total package.
There may not be a rematch, with Lesnar somehow being thrust into contention.
Yeah that stuff with lesnar was stupid
How old is Lesnar now?
Just signed up for my first bjj class. I know virtually nothing. Any advice?
Tap often and if anything feels like it hurts, tap
Nobody will call you a pussy if you tap a lot as a beginner