Message from BigBadSaxon - ID in Fitness #lifting


2018-02-23 23:31:46 UTC  

As someone who is lactose intolerant that might kill me lmao

2018-02-23 23:33:12 UTC  
2018-02-23 23:33:48 UTC  

Everything about this video sucks. Sorry but it’s what I got today. Finally about to eat for the first time

2018-02-24 00:36:27 UTC  

You had two more reps.

2018-02-24 01:23:46 UTC  

Was only programmed For two reps

2018-02-24 02:22:36 UTC  

@peytonT thanks for your thoughts.
@Suomi Stronk I look forward to your supplement-industry-insider insights

2018-02-24 02:23:32 UTC  

Would it be better to just talk in voice? @ThisIsChris

2018-02-24 02:24:28 UTC  

OK!

2018-02-24 02:24:41 UTC  

@Gaius Mucius Scaevola Can I talk to you in voice about it?

2018-02-24 02:25:16 UTC  

@Suomi Stronk i've got a friend coming over in a bit but i can hop in for a few minutes until he gets here

2018-02-24 02:25:41 UTC  

Gotcha. I'm getting in now. On mobile so excuse me there.

2018-02-24 02:27:04 UTC  

can you hear me?

2018-02-24 02:28:02 UTC  

oh shit my buddy just got here @Suomi Stronk

2018-02-24 02:28:07 UTC  

let me know when you're free some other time to chat

2018-02-26 06:25:07 UTC  

A few weeks ago I mentioned in this chat that my gym owner (former champ of some sort) has as a program for absolute beginners Day 1 of week Squats and Bench 3x8 work sets, Day 2 Squats and Bench 4x6, Day 3 3x8 Deadlift and Ancillary Deadlift exercises. I mentioned that in this chat and got a lot of comments that "Sounds great sounds like the guy knows what he's doing" and in particular when contrasting with SS I heard from here and other people I've talked to that "Yeah the 3x8 is better than Rippetoe's 3x5 for a beginner, you need to build volume". At the time it sounded reasonable, and I am used to the 3x8 sets now, but another friend who follows SS to the letter asked me why 3x8 would be better than 3x5 for a beginner. I could say "You need to build volume" but I realized I don't actually know what I would mean by that. Can anyone please explain?

2018-02-26 07:03:02 UTC  

I don't get why you would need to build volume for the sake of volume

2018-02-26 07:03:20 UTC  

when I ran SS I was able to progress so fast, and likely faster than I would have with 3x7

2018-02-26 07:03:22 UTC  

Adding more reps or sets is adding volume. Volume being the total amount of lifts. I assume he is suggesting that higher volume is better, and as a beginner you benefit more with extra volume. For example, in a lot of Sheiko routines, the volume is added by the amount of sets instead of reps. You'll end up doing 7-8 sets, but for lower rep counts. As you get further into strength programming and start to use things like Sheiko, Smolov, or Westside, having that "built volume" will help prepare you more than a 3x5 I think. 3x5 is barely anything. 15 reps? 3x8 adds almost 10 reps to your count

2018-02-26 07:03:22 UTC  

3x8 too

2018-02-26 07:04:30 UTC  

My bench progressed faster with volume, whereas my squat progressed much faster with 3x5*

2018-02-26 07:06:05 UTC  

Russian coaches say that you should train smaller muscle groups with more volume and larger muscle groups with less volume

2018-02-26 07:06:18 UTC  

So that makes sense! How interesting

2018-02-26 12:56:38 UTC  

I think that the idea of volume for beginners is that you are still getting use to the movement, and if you are adding weight in proper intervals, then for a while you will be lifting less weight that your body really needs to stimulate growth. This is due to the fact that your muscles are just getting use to moving this was and not necessarily that they can't lift more weight.

2018-02-26 12:57:43 UTC  

By adding volume you are exhausting the larger muscles due to work load without needing much weight and also hitting smaller muscles groups that will be called upon once the larger groups get tired.

2018-02-26 12:58:09 UTC  

But I don't have any science at my finger tips to back that up. @ThisIsChris

2018-02-26 13:55:44 UTC  

^^

2018-02-26 16:20:29 UTC  

I disagree on the volume aspect for a complete beginner. Because the novice has not adapted to the movements he will experience debilitating soreness from high volume work and not be able to make progression early.

2018-02-26 17:57:45 UTC  

And now we have reached the classic impass of all discussions regarding specific preferences in fitness and training: "Try out both programs and see what works for you." I would suggest starting with fewer sets and if you are seeing measurable progress, then just stay with that as long as it works. If you start to stall on adding weight to the bar, then check first your nutrition and sleep patterns before considering changing to another program.

2018-02-26 18:34:36 UTC  

@BryceB-ND @BigBadSaxon - ID @Fox @peytonT @Zyklonius B Gassem-LA thanks a lot guys, I didn't realize how much there was to think about! Looks like there are several aspects to consider, including absolute beginner's building up muscle and the differences between smaller muscle groups and larger muscle groups. Funny enough I remember Mark Rippetoe's rationale for his 3x5 is (paraphrasing) "there are lots of aspects that can be debated, but the most important thing might be to pick something and just go" and he thought 3x5 was a good enough program that was simple. He seems to be reflecting the same point that Fox is on how many aspects could be considered. And as Bryce mentioned he found tweaking the 3x8/3x5 for different exercises, I think I'm at a point where I will probably adjust some of the reps. Not sure why but from some exercises I feel like I get more out of it if I do higher volume, and some exercises I want to focus on the reps more, in particular I've had more trouble with my 7th and 8th reps when doing bench press, which makes me wonder if it makes me think to focus on 3x5 on bench press, though that might be more of a retreat than a good idea. That's just an example. For some other excercises I feel like I would be cheating if I didn't do at least 8 reps, but I wonder if that means instead I should be adding more weight to feel more stress.

2018-02-26 18:36:28 UTC  

I should add the caveat that my preference for lower volume applies strictly to the heavy compound movements i.e. squat, deadlift,press etc

2018-02-26 18:37:15 UTC  

Any set over 6 I lose count lol. I have to start counting like “1, and , 2, and” would be four reps

2018-02-26 18:44:31 UTC  

@peytonT haha there's a few sets I intended to 8 but I go to the video and see I only did 7. I know where I mess up counting, I'll be like "alright I'm about to do rep number 5, ok here we go, wait is this rep 5 or did I already complete rep 5" so now a lot of the times I throw in one extra rep if I feel unsure.

2018-02-26 18:47:33 UTC  

Yeah sets of 8 at 70% on deadlift leave me mentally disabled for a few moments

2018-02-26 18:57:22 UTC  

I second @Zyklonius B Gassem-LA feeling about low sets on heavy lifts. Intensity is more important than volume in that regard (imo).

2018-02-26 21:29:59 UTC  

I feel the same way about bench

2018-02-27 20:54:26 UTC  

Anyone else get DOMS exclusively in their left knee

2018-02-27 20:57:15 UTC  

no

2018-02-27 23:11:39 UTC  

doms, in the knee

2018-02-27 23:11:48 UTC  

erm

2018-02-27 23:12:02 UTC  

like a muscle around the knee?

2018-02-27 23:12:33 UTC  

delayed onset muscle soreness kinda necessitates a muscle, not a joint haha