Message from @grete
Discord ID: 807102660981162005
of pleasure and pain of humans
that has no basis in politics in any history
By utopian I mean you are in same line with French utopians who believed in similar concepts out of some basic empathy and justified it with absolutely nothing
Not having justification for your desire is bad enough but they can't justify how to implement such goals in reality ether
History and present state of politics only confirm my beliefs, not yours
what I meant by you don't care for the outgroup as much as the ingroup, is if that if your vision of society is this liberal utilitarianism, that automatically puts you into an ingroup of liberal utilitarians that is in conflict with outgroups that don't want this vision enacted
Unlike you nationalist folks though my goal is not to benefit off of the destruction of other nations.
Ok we don't care????
That's how all states work
Not even liberals can avoid that
US is pinnacle of liberalism and see what they are doing
You can say what you want but in-group vs out-group is part of political reality
case in point of what @Erlik ᚯ is saying, clinton was very liberal would you agree? and yet he killed Wolands family when he bombed the shit out of serbia
Yes.
What does Clinton and America have to do with this? I despise the US government.
state conflict is a zero sum game
weeks ago
states/nations cant be equally prosperous
Some of this is true but I think the "oppress or be oppressed" attitude is problematic.
why
It creates an environment in which causing others to suffer is seen as not only acceptable but something to be desired.
no
How not?
it ''creates an environment'' where the suffering of others is judged by its utility rather than moral offence
jim think about what youre saying
Utility to what?
for a moment
doesnt it seem familiar?
utility to me/my state/group
Thinking is cool
Ok
a little
How?
youve got this weird thing about positive assertions that nobody is probably making
like ppl are sat here basing their worldview off psychopathic desires
because its good for me
Good old selfishness