Message from shinjitsu in Nick Fuentes Server #catholic-poasting-no-cultural-christians-allowed

2018-01-16 17:34:57 UTC  

No it doesn't matter. If he **knows** what actions you will tkae prior to you making them. Then there is **no** way to say you could have chosen otherwise.

2018-01-16 17:35:18 UTC  

This is not up for debate, this is widely accepted as problem by people you probably agree with

2018-01-16 17:35:49 UTC  

In this scenario free will is an illusion

2018-01-16 17:36:10 UTC  

It's why Calvinism (specifically predestination) is wrong and where these disagreements come from

2018-01-16 17:36:35 UTC  

Of course there is. If God is all knowing - as described in the Bible, then He will know all possible actions you could take throughout your life - I.e. there is still a level of personal input necessary. God doesn't force people to do anything - he merely observes.

2018-01-16 17:36:44 UTC  

No wait

2018-01-16 17:36:56 UTC  

*possible actions* is not the same as saying knowing which actions the person will take

2018-01-16 17:37:00 UTC  

Thus it's still *your* choices, but God knows what choices you make.

2018-01-16 17:37:10 UTC  

Prior to you making them?

2018-01-16 17:37:49 UTC  

Just yes or no prior to you making them, does God know what decision you will make? In your opinion

2018-01-16 17:39:02 UTC  

If an entity is all knowing it will know everything - possible actions as well as what actions will be taken. God knows that humans have a level of autonomy and as such their actions are of their own volition - God, however, still knows what path the individual will take.

Again, the idea is that God is omniscient, but not necessarily interventionist in the paths of individuals

2018-01-16 17:39:34 UTC  

It's akin to being able to go see all possible universes at the same time

2018-01-16 17:39:40 UTC  


2018-01-16 17:39:41 UTC  

It's not

2018-01-16 17:39:46 UTC  

because the soul is predestined to heaven or hell

2018-01-16 17:39:59 UTC  

Yes or no, does God know what action you will make before you make it?

2018-01-16 17:40:11 UTC  

Predestined by whom? God.

2018-01-16 17:40:15 UTC  


2018-01-16 17:40:25 UTC  

This is literally the central tenant of Calvinism

2018-01-16 17:40:34 UTC  

As I stated earlier - God knows what actions individuals will take, correct?

2018-01-16 17:40:40 UTC  

This is what you think

2018-01-16 17:40:55 UTC  

Well obviously you don't think so since you don't believe in God

2018-01-16 17:41:12 UTC  

Specifically here though, if God knows what action will be taken, free will doesn't exist.

2018-01-16 17:41:44 UTC  

And then calvinism is fine and a working theory

2018-01-16 17:41:46 UTC  

Except it does because God isn't the one influencing what actions will be taken

2018-01-16 17:41:56 UTC  

He doesn't have to bne

2018-01-16 17:42:09 UTC  

if the decision is predetermined, then you don't have free will.

2018-01-16 17:42:20 UTC  

Again this is something everyone has agreed on for hundred and hundreds of years

2018-01-16 17:43:02 UTC  

Appeal to majority eh?

How does 'knowing what one will do' equate to 'one has no free will'

2018-01-16 17:43:17 UTC  

The actions taken is still the imperative of the individual

2018-01-16 17:43:24 UTC  

God knows what actions will be taken

2018-01-16 17:43:25 UTC  

Because if one has free will there is no set decision yet....

2018-01-16 17:43:44 UTC  

Yeah it's an appeal to majority when you disregard the most fundamental and obvious logic that exists.

2018-01-16 17:45:07 UTC  

Shall we agree to disagree then?

2018-01-16 17:46:32 UTC  

Yup because to say a decision is known before it's made with 100% certainty directly implies that it is predetermined, and not decided by free will.

2018-01-16 17:48:02 UTC  

I'll concede then that free will is an illusion.

2018-01-16 17:50:33 UTC  


2018-01-16 17:53:59 UTC  


2018-01-17 05:07:55 UTC

2018-01-17 06:02:21 UTC  
2018-01-17 16:01:19 UTC  

fellas I want to find things that will move my soul in here