Message from SGL in Nick Fuentes Server #catholic-poasting-no-cultural-christians-allowed
The idea is that God knows how people will act anyway
You are still the agent carrying out said actions
No that's wrong. This is accepted by wrong by every philosopher even religious ones
*You* are the one making the choices, not God
No it doesn't matter. If he **knows** what actions you will tkae prior to you making them. Then there is **no** way to say you could have chosen otherwise.
This is not up for debate, this is widely accepted as problem by people you probably agree with
In this scenario free will is an illusion
It's why Calvinism (specifically predestination) is wrong and where these disagreements come from
Of course there is. If God is all knowing - as described in the Bible, then He will know all possible actions you could take throughout your life - I.e. there is still a level of personal input necessary. God doesn't force people to do anything - he merely observes.
*possible actions* is not the same as saying knowing which actions the person will take
Thus it's still *your* choices, but God knows what choices you make.
Prior to you making them?
Just yes or no prior to you making them, does God know what decision you will make? In your opinion
If an entity is all knowing it will know everything - possible actions as well as what actions will be taken. God knows that humans have a level of autonomy and as such their actions are of their own volition - God, however, still knows what path the individual will take.
Again, the idea is that God is omniscient, but not necessarily interventionist in the paths of individuals
It's akin to being able to go see all possible universes at the same time
because the soul is predestined to heaven or hell
Yes or no, does God know what action you will make before you make it?
Predestined by whom? God.
This is literally the central tenant of Calvinism
As I stated earlier - God knows what actions individuals will take, correct?
This is what you think
Well obviously you don't think so since you don't believe in God
Specifically here though, if God knows what action will be taken, free will doesn't exist.
And then calvinism is fine and a working theory
Except it does because God isn't the one influencing what actions will be taken
He doesn't have to bne
if the decision is predetermined, then you don't have free will.
Again this is something everyone has agreed on for hundred and hundreds of years
Appeal to majority eh?
How does 'knowing what one will do' equate to 'one has no free will'
The actions taken is still the imperative of the individual
God knows what actions will be taken
Because if one has free will there is no set decision yet....
Yeah it's an appeal to majority when you disregard the most fundamental and obvious logic that exists.
Shall we agree to disagree then?
Yup because to say a decision is known before it's made with 100% certainty directly implies that it is predetermined, and not decided by free will.
I'll concede then that free will is an illusion.