Messsage from SGL in Nick Fuentes Server #catholic-poasting-no-cultural-christians-allowed

SGL 2018-01-16 17:33:16  

He knows what their actions will be prior to them carrying them out

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:33:20  

you can not give free will while remaining omniscient

SGL 2018-01-16 17:33:41  

Of course you can. The idea isn't that God is forcing people to act a certain way

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:33:49  

Because if it is known what you will do, then it is predetermined what you will do, and you have no agency

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:33:59  

no you are just flat out wrong here there isn't even an argument to make.

SGL 2018-01-16 17:34:06  

The idea is that God knows how people will act anyway

SGL 2018-01-16 17:34:25  

You are still the agent carrying out said actions

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:34:28  

No that's wrong. This is accepted by wrong by every philosopher even religious ones

SGL 2018-01-16 17:34:40  

*You* are the one making the choices, not God

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:34:57  

No it doesn't matter. If he **knows** what actions you will tkae prior to you making them. Then there is **no** way to say you could have chosen otherwise.

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:35:18  

This is not up for debate, this is widely accepted as problem by people you probably agree with

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:35:49  

In this scenario free will is an illusion

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:36:10  

It's why Calvinism (specifically predestination) is wrong and where these disagreements come from

SGL 2018-01-16 17:36:35  

Of course there is. If God is all knowing - as described in the Bible, then He will know all possible actions you could take throughout your life - I.e. there is still a level of personal input necessary. God doesn't force people to do anything - he merely observes.

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:36:44  

No wait

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:36:56  

*possible actions* is not the same as saying knowing which actions the person will take

SGL 2018-01-16 17:37:00  

Thus it's still *your* choices, but God knows what choices you make.

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:37:10  

Prior to you making them?

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:37:49  

Just yes or no prior to you making them, does God know what decision you will make? In your opinion

SGL 2018-01-16 17:39:02  

If an entity is all knowing it will know everything - possible actions as well as what actions will be taken. God knows that humans have a level of autonomy and as such their actions are of their own volition - God, however, still knows what path the individual will take.

Again, the idea is that God is omniscient, but not necessarily interventionist in the paths of individuals

SGL 2018-01-16 17:39:34  

It's akin to being able to go see all possible universes at the same time

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:39:40  


shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:39:41  

It's not

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:39:46  

because the soul is predestined to heaven or hell

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:39:59  

Yes or no, does God know what action you will make before you make it?

SGL 2018-01-16 17:40:11  

Predestined by whom? God.

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:40:15  


shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:40:25  

This is literally the central tenant of Calvinism

SGL 2018-01-16 17:40:34  

As I stated earlier - God knows what actions individuals will take, correct?

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:40:40  

This is what you think

SGL 2018-01-16 17:40:55  

Well obviously you don't think so since you don't believe in God

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:41:12  

Specifically here though, if God knows what action will be taken, free will doesn't exist.

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:41:44  

And then calvinism is fine and a working theory

SGL 2018-01-16 17:41:46  

Except it does because God isn't the one influencing what actions will be taken

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:41:56  

He doesn't have to bne

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:42:09  

if the decision is predetermined, then you don't have free will.

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:42:20  

Again this is something everyone has agreed on for hundred and hundreds of years

SGL 2018-01-16 17:43:02  

Appeal to majority eh?

How does 'knowing what one will do' equate to 'one has no free will'

SGL 2018-01-16 17:43:17  

The actions taken is still the imperative of the individual

SGL 2018-01-16 17:43:24  

God knows what actions will be taken

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:43:25  

Because if one has free will there is no set decision yet....