Message from @Scooter2000
Discord ID: 467785067104698368
Like the usury question has been quite properly answered for modern times
Church recognizes that what usury is relative to the economic conditions of the times
Like currently to operate inside previous eras teachings on usury could leave a man destitute
So there is an up-dated teaching on usury
Which is not to say something like sexual teaching or women's ordination could ever change because they the fundaments of the teaching disallow it (sex is for procreative ends, Christ did not ordain women not even the Virgin Mary) for usury the fundament is economic exploitation not charging interest per se
Of course an atheist *could* get to heaven, its ultimately up to God's grace, if he wanted one to go to heaven he could bring him up, the point is we have been told clearly that to be sure of a path to heaven we must believe and work for Him
Also the pope is only infallible on certain things
@Vril-Gesellschaft [☩]#9453 we have had bad popes before
@Vril-Gesellschaft [☩]#9453
Think of papal infallibility like the tiebreaking powers of the VP
Its as much an administrative mechanism as it is anything else
Mainly used to end theological spats between bishoprics
you protestants need to understand that the Pope cannot change old doctrine
@NormanLord That strictly speaking is true
perhaps the papal infallibility defense brigade could enlighten us on what those things are that the Pope is infallible on, and not just reiterate the statement that his infallibility is limited
St. Thomas says it is impossible under what we know about how to be given salvation but that doesn't mean there are ways unknown to us God gives man salvation
@Barry White Ex Cathedra statements
otherwise it just becomes "It's not papal infallibility when he says something I don't like"
It's not Papal Infallibility when Papal Infallibility is not invoked
It's not even clear when the Pope gives an interview if he is speaking in one of his ecclesiastical roles
Pope is
Bishop of Rome
Metropolitan of the Roman province
Primate of Italy
Patriarch of the West
and First of all Patriarchs
these are all different jobs
Thank you
I would say typically when the Pope speaks publicly it is as Patriarch of the West
I actually think that's the official position of the Vatican media wing iirc
The reason he doesn't invoke infallibility is because he could then be investigated for heresy if he made a slightly erroneaous statement even by human error or slip of the tongue
Which Francis is aware there's a dozen Cardinals at least want him hounded out and would jump at the chance
Can't even remember the last Pope to invoke infallibility
@NormanLord It was Bl. Pius 12 and you actually have to have something to make a statement dogmatic on to make a dogmatic statement there are no current issues I am aware of that would warrant an ex cathedra decision
Sincere question:
If God's will shall be done with, or without human approval, then what is the objective in praying for something to happen to someone or something, or for a specific outcome to a situation, if that situation is already a fixated occurrence via the will of God? Should we simply pray instead that the will of God be done, and that alone?
POPE DO BAD THING ABANDON CHURCH ABANDON ALMOST 2000 YEAR OLD TRADITION
why did god like blood sacrifices in his younger hip and trendy days ?
Anybody got like a theology server where I could ask these questions and get real answers?
normmaly this chat does good with that
i try to delete most of the trolling in here
joe the king mod
no
@Thomas The answer I've always gotten to that problem is that God's plan will be done, and that ultimately, sometimes it will work in ways we don't yet understand