Message from @Thomas
Discord ID: 468180600012931102
St. Thomas says it is impossible under what we know about how to be given salvation but that doesn't mean there are ways unknown to us God gives man salvation
@Barry White Ex Cathedra statements
otherwise it just becomes "It's not papal infallibility when he says something I don't like"
It's not Papal Infallibility when Papal Infallibility is not invoked
It's not even clear when the Pope gives an interview if he is speaking in one of his ecclesiastical roles
Pope is
Bishop of Rome
Metropolitan of the Roman province
Primate of Italy
Patriarch of the West
and First of all Patriarchs
these are all different jobs
Thank you
I would say typically when the Pope speaks publicly it is as Patriarch of the West
I actually think that's the official position of the Vatican media wing iirc
The reason he doesn't invoke infallibility is because he could then be investigated for heresy if he made a slightly erroneaous statement even by human error or slip of the tongue
Which Francis is aware there's a dozen Cardinals at least want him hounded out and would jump at the chance
Can't even remember the last Pope to invoke infallibility
@NormanLord It was Bl. Pius 12 and you actually have to have something to make a statement dogmatic on to make a dogmatic statement there are no current issues I am aware of that would warrant an ex cathedra decision
Sincere question:
If God's will shall be done with, or without human approval, then what is the objective in praying for something to happen to someone or something, or for a specific outcome to a situation, if that situation is already a fixated occurrence via the will of God? Should we simply pray instead that the will of God be done, and that alone?
POPE DO BAD THING ABANDON CHURCH ABANDON ALMOST 2000 YEAR OLD TRADITION
why did god like blood sacrifices in his younger hip and trendy days ?
normmaly this chat does good with that
i try to delete most of the trolling in here
joe the king mod
no
@Thomas The answer I've always gotten to that problem is that God's plan will be done, and that ultimately, sometimes it will work in ways we don't yet understand
Well yeah, and I know that,
but the question pertains as to why we should bother praying for something other than the exercise of the will of God.
Because if I’m honest I don’t know why we should even bother.
Right. I don't think it's a bad thing to do so, but you're right; it's not like you'll change God's will by hoping He will act differently.
Perhaps it can be a good thing to figure out (spiritually) WHY you want said thing to happen. If you're spiritually in a perfect place, you'll only pray for things that God will do, if that makes any sense
Yeah, so I mean should we even seriously pray that something should go a different way instead of simply living with the results of the world?
Knowing that God’s will, shall inevitably be entirely done.
I will think yes, it's worth it. I'm no theologian, but praying for specific events can reveal God's plan about them to you. As much as I hate people who just 'meditate', in a sense, prayer can be done for your benefit
Yes but why should I want to know them? And if it was imperative for me to know, and I was already in a state of grace, wouldn’t God simply reveal the things he needs me to know in order to better glorify Him?
Yeah, I guess
I think that ultimately, praying for things is like a lower-level spiritual tactic; there's nothing wrong with it, and perhaps that's all you are now capable of, but as you learn more about the Father, you will understand better ways to pray to Him
@Thomas The problem you have is your understanding of what that means. It does not mean at all that the future is pre-determined it means that God experiencing all things at one time knows all things past, present and future and can use all of our shortcomings to fulfill providential ends regardless of how any particular thing goes. You should pray because if you are living the life of Grace and ask for things God may very well give them to you.
God may be the author of the book but the characters are still making decisions which impact the story.
We have an active hand in creation; "pro-creation."
I appreciate it.
Cleared some things up for me.