It's way easier than I expected tbh

Don't think of it as subverting. We are a growing faction within the Republican Party. We belong there, and our ideas are slowly getting more and more mainstream

Changing the Republican party from the inside is our best bet of getting White identity politics into the WH

@Goldstein Riots Tom is right. Too many people in here want to be ideologues, rather than win. We need to be pragmatic, realistic and forward looking - obviously we can't abandon our core values, ever, either - but appealing to powerful factions is the way forward.

Ideologues never win.

@TMatthews our ideas are mainstream, but most white people know they will get fired and ostracized for them.

It will be way easier to become a respected and powerful faction of the party using America first rhetoric than obscure meta political concepts

@Kingfish Are you saying reading Neitszche obsessively is not gonna win?

The GOP didn't really oppose affirmative action until after Duke nearly won the Louisiana senate seat and they co-opted that idea. Not a fan of his really, but the party can be made to change to suit its base

@Sam Anderson will to power bro!

IN A SENSE EHE

Civnats for instance, they get alot of hate but they are halfway there and LITERALLY WANT TO CONSTRUCT A 30 FOOT WALL ON THE MEXICAN BORDER AND PHYSICALLY ROUND UP AND DEPORT 12 MILLION MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

Like come on, that's a pretty good starting point.

Why should we NOT court these people

They also have funding, infrastructure, and influence

I don't necessarily mind a rebrand, just please don't turn this into a civnat group. If we're going to rebrand, it should be to get away from Charlottesville and Eli and maybe make the name more intuitive, but not to make us look like civnats.

I support taking over other groups and having people like James appeal to civic nationalism, but we absolutely need to have explicit groups.

We're gonna leave these resources by the wayside for ideological purity?

Some of these boomers will get really FEDposty if given the chance. It channels their Bush era war mongering motives.

We should court civnats, but we can't become them. That means convincing them that race matters

Doing explicitly Nationalist action yields implicit Identitarian results.

@Jacob Agreed. The issue isn't how the left sees us, it's how the average white sees us.

We should never leave resources behind, but we shouldn't become civnats to speak to them

When the Left tries to brand some huge TPUSA conference in FL as "The largest gathering of White Nationalists" or something like that. They kind of have a point, because that thing was 95% White and they were all Nationalists.

@Deleted User Eh, civnats are like 20% of the way there. Some of them honestly do a lot more harm than good.

I agree we should never be civ Nats. We should absolutely tap into their supporters, their money, their influence, and their infrastructure however.

Civnats are also tied at the hip to Trump to the point of being unable to objectively analyze or criticize anything he does. Going to all in on MAGA imagery could push away the Bernie bros who deep down know the left doesn't want them around

@Kingfish Right, do we agree on that

Our continued existence gives meaning to the world. Imagine a planet filled with just NPCs. Losing the spark of Western Civilization would be the greatest shame in the universe.

@Sam Anderson But the thing is, when the average White sees that coupled with the optics of the group, they don't buy it and their mistrust of such sources grows.

Making fun of these people is great. But why not assimilate all of their progress on the political field?

@Virgil I'm not saying we should pursue idealogical purity

We can do far more then own the civnats online. We can completely dominate their institutions and movement with our own while maintaining our ideological core. It will require concessions to do however. @Jacob

We must remember that we are the culmination of thousands of years of European progress, we want to preserve that. I'm personally not *all* against a rebrand, but we can very well save the name and logo we already have, Patrick is doing wonders for just that. It's not a puritan issue, it's a social capital issue

@Kingfish Right. But should we be joining their groups while having our own, or should we turn our group into theirs?

Media, flyers, interviews, posters, and banner drops all can do well in tapping the Trumpian attitude

@Jacob Join and guide them in our direction.

Unpopular opinion: We need to win over as many minds as possible, of all races. Identitarian is "pro" not "anti".

At some point, you're not nudging civnats forward, you're just reinforcing them

There's a middle ground though.

I'm not saying we do either

Im saying we softly dip in not go head first

We have to try different things in little doses to see what yields results.

Maybe we should wait until the Today show interview of Patrick comes out before we all have a spontaneous panic about scrapping everything?