Truth

Whites are getting less colorblind and starting to "notice".

@Ald those are all more manageable goals though and can be discussed perfectly without discussing ethnostates

Also, I think the "ethnostate" term pushes us into a false dichotomy. Opponents will often respond that it's unrealistic and therefore we shouldn't try. Of course, to us, we understand that this argument is wrong, but, it intuitively sounds reasonable without thinking about it too deeply.

Saying that what we want is "an ethnostate" makes it sound like it's 100.00% or bust, which, at best, sounds like an unrealistic goal, and, at worst, sounds like we want to throw babies into train cars.

Now, I understand that this is a stupid argument, but, we should still avoid it.

@Nemets what is the deal with Somalis? to me they seem less intelligent and physiologically stranger than west Africans.

@ThisIsChris But they all are only desirable within a framework wherein the implicit ideal is the ethnostate

@Nemets Are Zulu Bantu?

@Ald or just white flourishing generally

What do you put forward as peak white flourishing instead?

Just making it work somehow?

Why?

When we know what the best thing for our people really is

Peak white flourishing is white flourishing that exists, is real, and is stable

States, especially ethnostates, don't exist and are not stable in concept or practice

@Nemets Who are the most anti-white group in South Africa? What kind of blacks are coming for the farms?

Why does this place always get interesting this time of night when I need sleep?

Oh well night guys. Thank care.

@Jacob, I disagree. The left is always using utopian ideals, like communism. Many moderate leftists just don’t believe in such utopian ideas. But it it pushes the Overton window nonetheless. Maybe we aren’t pushing the discussion hard enough by using distancing verbiage.

Murdoch on his podcast had a great, simple approach: "Be pro white. Try to make the future for white people better, try to make your land more white and not less. Anyone who is pro white is a potential ally."

That's a great point with the Overton Window @dudelsäcke

@Jacob EFF seems top villains

What I really want to impress is that no one will stake that radical ideal for us. And the more we promote it the more acceptable everyone a little more lenient looks, pulling the overton window our way

@Jacob https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Freedom_Fighters

These bits are the biggest worry I know of.

Still, advocating for homelands for all people where they live around those they share a common culture and identity with is a more "reasonable" sounding way of expressing the same idea @dudelsäcke

Cause like, if ethnostate guys are a fact of politics, by comparison just being hard on immigration looks moderate

@ThisIsChris

@Ald That's honestly a really good point and probably the best argument I've heard in favor of the "ethnostate" strategy

Though, I think there should be a balance between pulling the Overton Window, and sounding realistic

We should sound radical but not to the point that it's science fiction y

@Jacob, I agree. But the dissident right needs a spectrum of commentators who are pushing varying degrees of our beliefs. In polite company, say “homelands” for all. But maybe IE’s place is more to the right...? I donno. From Tomi to Tucker to Lauren to... Where does IE fit?

@Ald "if ethnostate guys are a fact of politics, by comparison just being hard on immigration looks moderate" that's a big if though because "if ethnostate guys are a fact of politics" presumes they can ever be successful, which they can't in our time or place or any forseeable time and place

"Any foreseeable time and place"

@Ald IE also doesn't have to do everything. A decentralized right wing /white well being movement is anti-fragile and multiple approaches by separate groups can help even without teamwork. IE has the highest potential for growth as "good cop." We shouldn't either endorse or disavow other groups like Patriot Front. We do our thing they do theirs. An explicit ethnostate group can do their thing too.

What are we even laboring for then

If you can't foresee any time and place

where a white nation for whites is plausible

@dudelsäcke That's a good point. Maybe guys advocating for an "ethnostate" do have a place, but I think there's a strong need for something like IE

@Ald white flourishing generally. fewer specifics means opponents can't pin us down on rhetorical points

So you want plausibility but fewer specifics. I guess the ideal on that view is just "Shit be how it is"

I prefer to call it racial self-determination of sovereignty, but flourishing works too.

The existing ethnostate groups (League of the South, Northwest Front) don't have good records. If a new group rose that could only be a good thing, but it benefits IE and everyone for IE to not be too entangled in such a group.

@Ald given that things are how they are, we are working towards a better country for white people in the ways we can, and discussing ethnostates would set us back