I voted for Trump because I actually believed in what he said, and I'll vote R on the 6th only because I want him to be able to forward his agenda, and to continue the general right wing cultural revolution.

Did that get us, here, though? If we consistently voted for the most far right candidate available, then the selection of candidates would have shifted right over time

Frog in the boiling water. Taking the thing that's the least bad compromise.

Don't like it.

Well... if you don't take what's least bad, then you get a higher chance of getting what's more bad

Better to take nothing. What would happen if everyone, or even a substantial portion of the population, just refused to vote? Refused to consent to be governed by any of the evils? I don't know, but it would have to be better than continuing to play a game set up so there's no way for us to win.

Morally, I refuse to choose evil.

Lesser or not.

What would happen? The elites would laugh at us, I guess

that's a pretty stupid position for a smart guy like you to take @sigruna14

In the short term.

@Deleted User So the elites, system, whatever, present two candidates, no meaningful difference between them, both slaves to interests who hate you, and they ask you to choose - think it's stupid to refuse to play the game at all?

Write ins are our equivalent of a vote of no confidence

@sigruna14 yes. you're still playing the game

"not playing the game" would be going anprim. removing yourself from society.

Whether or not you vote, you're still governed, still pay taxes, still "live in a society"

Might as well support incremental improvement, bu voting for the less bad option.

Let me ask you this. Did you even vote for Trump?

okay guys help me decide

But if my vote isn't going to actually change a damn thing, I'd rather not vote for evil, and have at least the satisfaction of knowing I didn't vote for evil. Then work to get a worthy candidate on the ballot, then vote for him, when it's actually worth doing and means something. Yeah, I voted for Trump because I thought he could actually do good.

In 2012 I voted third party.

This measure would charge pollution fees on sources of greenhouse gas pollutants and use the revenue to reduce pollution, promote clean energy, and address climate impacts, under oversight of a public board.

Based and redpilled, or cringe and bluepilled?

Your vote will change *something*, though, just not as much as you'd like

@Jacob It sounds good, but I don't trust our current government to do anything and would prefer them to have less power than more, so I'd probably vote no.

hard choice then

wait a second

Will it really? Would voting for Mitt Romney or John McCain really change anything? Or just maybe make it seem so in some illusory ways?

Voting yes = less money for corporations = less money for them to lobby for immigration

Romney or McCain? Probably not

Maybe even make it worse

hmmm the initiative is backed by the Latino Community Fund, though

Always follow the money...

holy shit

the initiative exempts the largest polluters

"Six of the state's top 10 carbon admitters would be exempt"

uhhh wut

Voting for the govt to "help" anything...

also, why write "six" as a word but "10" as a number?

it looks stupid

>just don't ~~goys~~ guys

Granted there are some really valid criticisms of republican democracy, but I think we have to engage and play with the paradigm that we've inherited.