In <#371705962224025610> we have the document "values before policy". My idea of the maximal wellbeing is one of changing our values and our culture. Reasoning is downstream from values, politics is downstream from culture. We've had ethnostates in the past and it didn't save us from where we are now because we lost the culture. We can't choose for ourselves because our values changed. My ideal is that our values and culture are in the right place. If that's the case we will outlast many iterations of ethnostates (as Europeans did for millenia). The political policies we advocate today are more importantly a device for us to communicate to the world the result of our values and the culture we want to instill. If someone asks why we want reduced immigration, it's because that policy reflects our values. If someone asks why we want to fight heroin and opioid use, it's because that policy reflects our beliefs. Explicit policy positions are an artistic expression of the values and culture we believe in.

Forced Calexit when

https://twitter.com/RepSwalwell/status/1063531633771339781

"Follow this tyrannical law or accept that you'll be nuked by the federal government"

Also as a moderator I will go back soon and remove any statements that imply Identitarianism is a mere optics facade, such as saying it is merely a re-skinning of alt-right. It would be a condemnation of IE if it were true.

I never implied that.

Not sure if anyone implied it, just saying I will be going back and re-reading for that.

@ThisIsChris waaaaaay tl;dr

I write this because sometimes people want to rephrase things they've said. I also vague it as "whatever I find" because I've only been able to gloss over the conversation to maybe a closer look will reveal there's nothing to read. But it *is* a common misconception especially for new people so just trying to be sensitive to that.

In all seriousness tho these are good answers

My point is aR never had a solid definition. It was just a flimsy alliance (not even voluntary in many cases) of various factions and ideologies, IE/ Identitarianism being one. Enough disasters happened due to hedonistic people, every faction is splitting from it for their own reasons.

Such splitting and distancing in the long term is good, I think all agree and is the IE party line, no?

Would have to ask leadership if we were allies with the factions of the alt-right.

If we showed up at some of the same events and share a single issue in common that's not enough to make us allies, though maybe there was more to it than that I would ask @Reinhard Wolff what he thinks.

I am not saying allies now or even recently. Or even "alliance" in an amicable sense.

more like an involuntary grouping, in many senses put upon all the groups by media

There's legal reasons we want to be incredibly clear and precise in our chats about what our precise relationship is or isn't with other groups.

let me make my stance perfectly clear: I just want to grill for G*d sake

Better to not assert anything than to over assert, because something inaccurate that's said is more of an issue than something inaccurate by omission.

I'm not disagreeing with that.
But it is dishonest and insults everyones' intelligence to insist there was never some overlap in media, some individuals, events, etc.

The future is important.

@Sam Southern - TN Ok, thinly veiled threat by a lawmaker to kill anyone who defies his disrespect of their rights americans.

"But it is dishonest and insults everyones' intelligence to insist there was never some overlap in media, some individuals, events, etc." according to who? What was the nature of this overlap? When and to what extent were these overlaps known to which members in leadership?

😒 <:really:453005408064241674> I dunno, man, maybe the first Director getting into California street fights?

at a gathering of so called "alt-right" groups?

That was found to be self-defense in a court of law, and he is no longer affiliated with the organization.

He was not there as part of an alt-right group anymore then he was part of the other antifa groups there.

He was there as part of Identity Evropa independently of what other groups did or did not do.

Okay, okay. Sure. I'll drop it. No IE people were at Charlottesville either.

Or have ever listened to TRS.

Antifa listens to TRS too

That is the biggest non sequitur

There were IE people at charlottesville, as were many other people. The IE people were there as part of Identity Evropa and not under any other group.

OK, civnat boomers listen to TRS too.

I feel like we are talking past eachother. "alt-Right" wasn't a group. No more than "punk rock" is a band

Bands can move away from punk rock and associate less and less with punk rock.

We're not an authority on whether the alt-right was a group or not. Why get into it? Let's just be who we are. Otherwise we're leaving confusing messages for future lawyers to read should the IE chat logs every get subpoenaed in discovery.

That's why it's important to be very precise and correct and not unnecessarily link us with any other groups or movements that we are not a part of.

I support I.E going its own way and developing its own brand. I'm not even trying to argue. I was just trying to be helpful to pepsi's question. But sure, I will go along to get along: IE covalesced out of the ether in June 2018 with no previous history. Please delete any contrary messaging.

Let’s all lighten up a bit. We used the term “Alt-Right” for a time, it’s undeniable.

I apologize if my points we're combative or in some way litigiously unwise. I appreciate and admire the thorough custodial work done on this channel. I am off to gym to wait in line at squat rack.

Damn I missed the argument