Message from @Lily Lee - NJ

Discord ID: 519684179848331276


2018-12-05 01:11:52 UTC  
2018-12-05 01:13:32 UTC  

I was red-pulling a relative today: he was fairly receptive. Of course I had to measure my words carefully and I had to be careful not to use the word “white” anywhere:

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/481597551272001546/519682708084097044/image1.png

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2018-12-05 01:13:58 UTC  

"It's true that this country was a country of immigrants"

2018-12-05 01:14:01 UTC  

let me stop you right there

2018-12-05 01:14:34 UTC  

"This country was built by European immigrants"

2018-12-05 01:14:36 UTC  

again, no.

2018-12-05 01:15:00 UTC  

Yeah, the term immigrants would imply that there was already a nation here

2018-12-05 01:15:23 UTC  

it's better to agree and amplify, focus on the demographics imo

2018-12-05 01:15:42 UTC  

"Who were these immigrants? Let's take a look at the laws"

2018-12-05 01:15:56 UTC  

It's important to be accurate about what we were. Conquerors and pioneers that created a nation. Not immigrants.

2018-12-05 01:16:28 UTC  

What about the Irish who built the railroads and such?

2018-12-05 01:16:44 UTC  

I would classify them as immigrants

2018-12-05 01:17:08 UTC  

I'm not Irish lol, but yes the Irish were immigrants.

2018-12-05 01:17:09 UTC  

Anyone after laws were established are immigrants.

2018-12-05 01:17:57 UTC  

@Sam Southern - TN I know you have a very black-and-white view on this topic and you and I disagree on this. There were indeed European immigrants.

2018-12-05 01:18:25 UTC  

Europeans that came in the 20s and 30s and 40s did not come on the mayflower

2018-12-05 01:18:35 UTC  

The country wasn't built by immigrants. That's just not accurate

2018-12-05 01:18:54 UTC  

Good job @Grayson , he seemed to be really receptive

2018-12-05 01:18:55 UTC  

@Sam Southern - TN alright Sam.

2018-12-05 01:19:02 UTC  

both white immigrants and white pioneers

2018-12-05 01:19:23 UTC  

Immigrants did strengthen this country. To a certain point.

2018-12-05 01:19:56 UTC  

Sometimes you have to go easy with people and you have to build on what they already believe and we were not talking about the settlers and the frontiers. We were talking about his grandparents and great grandparents who came to this country

2018-12-05 01:21:17 UTC  

oh okay

2018-12-05 01:22:07 UTC  

^ yes. I said to a certain point. I meant long before we accepted others.

2018-12-05 01:22:39 UTC  

The question is fundamentally to what extent do we credit the settling generations with "building" the country. Obviously, settlers and pioneers claimed the entire continent and the original, largely Anglo, core of the country founded the US. Yet, one could definitely argue that the later waves of European arrivals continued to "build" the country. That's not to say the founding generations were somehow lacking. This is only a result of the timing of the industrial revolution to a degree.

2018-12-05 01:23:07 UTC  

My great grandparents were “immigrants”. There is an issue of nomenclature around the term “immigrants”.

2018-12-05 01:23:28 UTC  
2018-12-05 01:27:12 UTC  

The term immigrant is not necessarily a negative term. It has become a negative term in modern times because of what’s happening with this wave of immigration. But the settlers and the frontiers while they have paved the way and created a nation, were not the only contributors to what this nation has become. But I know Sam will continue to disagree with me..

2018-12-05 01:29:11 UTC  

Yes, an issue of nomenclature, as I said. Like much being shoved down our throat today. Feminism. Equality. Immigrants. Racism. Fascist. Nazi. We don’t have an agreed upon definition for these (and many other) terms. This is a big part of the problem.

2018-12-05 01:29:48 UTC  

No one knows what anything means, we are so far removed from reality.

2018-12-05 01:29:52 UTC  

we can compromise and say both the settlers and the later european immigrants helped build it

2018-12-05 01:31:53 UTC  

These conversations are silly and unproductive if we don’t have a set definition for the terms we are debating on. In this case, “immigrants”.

2018-12-05 01:35:38 UTC  

I very much share Sam Southern's view on immigrant/builders/settlers. Interesting I was just listening to an interview with Faith and Heritage guys and they succinctly summarized my view on it. The interview can be heard here if your curious:
https://identitydixie.com/2018/11/26/rebel-yell-225-nathanael-strickland-faith-heritage/

2018-12-05 01:35:55 UTC  

I would define immigrants as people who move to an already established nation to live there. So I'd say anyone who arrived after the US became an independent nation is an immigrant, anyone before that, a settler/colonist

2018-12-05 01:36:10 UTC  

Anyone in IE whose grandparents or great-grandparents came here from Europe are a result of European immigrants. And I think it’s wonderful

2018-12-05 01:36:38 UTC  

^ that’s me.

2018-12-05 01:37:05 UTC  

Well unless you’re an Amerindian I think everyone has had grandparents or great-grandparents who came from Europe

2018-12-05 01:37:56 UTC  

Proud Native America here. Amerindians aren’t natives.

2018-12-05 01:38:09 UTC  

Basically the settlers built the country and determined what it meant to be American. Later waves became American by melding into, adopting, becoming like the settlers. The process involved a lot of hard work to prove themselves by the "immigrants" and basically hazing by the dominant culture to reform the new comers.

2018-12-05 01:38:22 UTC  

Anyways I will drop it . my whole point was that I was trying to read pill one of my relatives by going very slow and measuring my words carefully and he was fairly receptive. You have to go gentle and go easy on people but at least you get them thinking

2018-12-05 01:38:33 UTC  

@Alexander Pechorin proud Native American as well. Amerindians ain’t American