You mean define cosmopolitan?

No

What I'm asking

is why must national loyalty triumph over all?

Im sry I got here late

@SilverLining It shouldn't.

PLOT TWIST

Define what you mean by triumph @SilverLining

That's a different question than "is it good"

Snake betrays razor haha

If your nation starts killing its people, for example, then it's okay not to align with it, lol

What if you nation stops killing people?

why must it dominate all other loyalties?

I think THAT'S when I'd overthrow it for being inept

It shouldnt

You're using vague terms here

what if its other policies are objectionable?

not really

I am interested to hear razor's reasoning

Your original question

Was

"Why is having dissidents and disloyal people bad?"

lol

hmmmmmmmmmmm

I wonder

That is a different question @SilverLining

You're asking me different things

right, and that's the first in a string of questions

you said it's bad because it underlines national unity

because it harms the nation

Group cohesion to be more general

I'm questioning why "the nation" should lie above every other loyalty

It shouldn't

Exactly

The nation can actively work against an individual

Ah, but now we're delving into individual vs collective

If I'm an 18th century factory worker, you bet I'm going to be a dissident

So you'll lose me as an ally here

oh, not that entirely

I can get some group loyalties

I just don't view "the nation" as the highest loyalty