Message from @The Big Oof

Discord ID: 488138596944052244


2018-09-09 00:04:56 UTC  

Over someone, who is likewise an urbanite and shares a common philosophy, ideology, and religion, but just so happens to be a different ethnicity?

2018-09-09 00:05:26 UTC  

Because the backwoods farmer would most likely defend you if your country was attacked, first of all

2018-09-09 00:05:35 UTC  

@SilverLining if you're a utilitarian you shouldn't.

2018-09-09 00:05:39 UTC  

Easy

2018-09-09 00:05:50 UTC  

Wheras the urbanite would most likely defend his ethnic kin first

2018-09-09 00:06:01 UTC  

All we can do here is debate first principles themselves

2018-09-09 00:06:25 UTC  

Its like we're trying to speak different languages

2018-09-09 00:06:38 UTC  

Why should I defend a nation which holds different ideological and philosophical principles than me?

2018-09-09 00:06:49 UTC  

You shouldn't.

2018-09-09 00:06:54 UTC  

You don't really have to

2018-09-09 00:06:57 UTC  

**fixed question

2018-09-09 00:06:58 UTC  

But you should defend your country

2018-09-09 00:07:18 UTC  

The state is a means to an end

2018-09-09 00:07:27 UTC  

Both people and governments should hold the right principles and if you do and your government doesn't then you should attempt to fix this

2018-09-09 00:07:29 UTC  

Assuming the invaders have a just reason and are more in line with my ideology...

2018-09-09 00:07:47 UTC  

What are the invaders there for?

2018-09-09 00:07:54 UTC  

"Just reason" is subjective

2018-09-09 00:08:03 UTC  

I mean, it's a case to case basis

2018-09-09 00:08:20 UTC  

For example, let's just go to the nazi germany circa 1945

2018-09-09 00:08:23 UTC  

Supposing I'm...

2018-09-09 00:08:30 UTC  

Invaders are almost there to spread their influence

2018-09-09 00:08:31 UTC  

a lesbian, communist german

2018-09-09 00:08:39 UTC  

Who's somehow managed to make it this far

2018-09-09 00:09:01 UTC  

Should I defend the german homeland, the german people, even though if I did so, I'd likely be persecuted after making my effort

2018-09-09 00:09:16 UTC  

A communist doesn't value ethic blood so no

2018-09-09 00:09:20 UTC  

^

2018-09-09 00:09:24 UTC  

eh, fine

2018-09-09 00:09:28 UTC  

just a lesbian german

2018-09-09 00:09:29 UTC  

there we go

2018-09-09 00:09:33 UTC  

Again the subject of debate has to be WHAT are the right principles

2018-09-09 00:09:34 UTC  

I wouldn't be killed, mind you

2018-09-09 00:09:35 UTC  

And why

2018-09-09 00:09:41 UTC  

Communists are inherently internationalist, aside from some fringe movements like National Bolshevism

2018-09-09 00:09:58 UTC  

Still, I'm asking in your set of beliefs

2018-09-09 00:09:59 UTC  

Even then

2018-09-09 00:10:01 UTC  

Should I?

2018-09-09 00:10:06 UTC  

Would it be the "right" thing to do?

2018-09-09 00:10:19 UTC  

Even though my nation directly violates all my personal beliefs

2018-09-09 00:10:37 UTC  

Is morality subjective

2018-09-09 00:10:47 UTC  

"Should I defend the german homeland, the german people, even though if I did so, I'd likely be persecuted after making my effort"

This is a bit irrelevant, but to you would actually probably be spared

2018-09-09 00:10:51 UTC  

The answer to that question determines the answer to yours