Message from @The Big Oof

Discord ID: 488145872983425025


2018-09-09 00:31:48 UTC  

Moral systems can be based on utilitarian materialism, which is exactly what you're describing.

2018-09-09 00:32:19 UTC  

Everything we do is for the purpose of spreading our genes -> only what does this is considered moral

2018-09-09 00:32:24 UTC  

This is utilitarian materialism.

2018-09-09 00:33:10 UTC  

I have a correction to make:
Earlier I said "I am an idealist."
That was a mistake. I am not an idealist, I am a dualist.

2018-09-09 00:33:26 UTC  

That might be the source of the confusion.

2018-09-09 00:33:45 UTC  

You explained your position and I firmly believe it's materialist.

2018-09-09 00:33:52 UTC  

I'm not getting tied up in what you call yourself.

2018-09-09 00:34:11 UTC  

Do we agree that materialism is a term with a standard definition

2018-09-09 00:34:40 UTC  

You gave me the definition of materialism, which is a broad philosophy. I agree with the definition you gave, and firmly believe it applies here.

2018-09-09 00:34:47 UTC  

Okay, excellent.

2018-09-09 00:34:53 UTC  

You're reducing human existence to the material, aka, the spread of genes.

2018-09-09 00:34:59 UTC  

I do not believe that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.

2018-09-09 00:35:15 UTC  

I believe that matter is ONE fundamental substance in nature along with the imaterial

2018-09-09 00:35:25 UTC  

So you may not be a materialist but what you're articulating is a firmly materialist position.

2018-09-09 00:35:27 UTC  

So consciousness is its own reality

2018-09-09 00:35:40 UTC  

And is not reducible to matter

2018-09-09 00:36:28 UTC  

Ideas for example the number zero is not reducible to matter

2018-09-09 00:36:46 UTC  

Materialists wouldn't argue that 0 is reducible to matter though.

2018-09-09 00:37:10 UTC  

Well materialism posits that everything is reducible to matter so to speak

2018-09-09 00:37:12 UTC  

A materialist would argue that we perpetuate our species through chemical impulses and morality is only based on what is expedient to that end.

2018-09-09 00:37:25 UTC  

right

2018-09-09 00:37:25 UTC  

In other words exactly what you're saying.

2018-09-09 00:37:42 UTC  

Have you met a materialist before? Lol I've never heard one say that

2018-09-09 00:37:50 UTC  

I've heard it a lot

2018-09-09 00:38:24 UTC  

"Materialist" usually is not someone who adheres to a strict philosophy.

2018-09-09 00:38:25 UTC  

Well in any case I think I laid out my case for why I can't possibly be a materialist based on my belief about reality

2018-09-09 00:38:41 UTC  

@The Big Oof my ip is 12345678910

2018-09-09 00:38:44 UTC  

You don't have to be a materialist but you outlined a firmly materialist belief for existence.

2018-09-09 00:39:29 UTC  

I mean perhaps what you dislike about my moral system is that it doesn't deny the material world because you do

2018-09-09 00:39:49 UTC  

Many moral systems deny the material world

2018-09-09 00:39:52 UTC  

I don't like or dislike it. I'm just recognizing it for what it is.

2018-09-09 00:40:37 UTC  

Reality is comprised of matter and immaterial. Both elements are real and I reject neither.

2018-09-09 00:41:14 UTC  

I choose to recognize the value of matter and you choose to see this as a rejection of the imaterial

2018-09-09 00:41:41 UTC  

Your moral system is based on an impetus for reproduction. Given that we live in a world where we can reduce this to chemicals at the most reduced scale, the only logical conclusion from that position is materialism.

2018-09-09 00:41:51 UTC  

Absurd

2018-09-09 00:42:04 UTC  

If you ignore the material aspect to claim you aren't a materialist that seems like sophistry to me.

2018-09-09 00:42:05 UTC  

The only logical conclusion of my moral system is not materialism haha

2018-09-09 00:42:43 UTC  

The way you described it is exactly materialist. At this point I'm just repeating myself.

2018-09-09 00:42:50 UTC  

A good moral system should be able to account for the material world and argue based on it.

2018-09-09 00:42:55 UTC  

You don't have to deny the existence of immaterial reality to believe in my moral system

2018-09-09 00:43:02 UTC  

@Snakeisninja Is it ethical for a person to reproduce if their children will have serious diseases or disabilities?