Message from @sɪᴅɪsɴᴏᴛʜᴇʀᴇ
Discord ID: 519942235446575105
I'm not disagreeing
define that
It is corporatism
yeah I know just clarifying
A somewhat dirty definition of state socialism is when the state owns the means of production and redistributes everything
which isn't the same as state capitalism
that is socialism
in itself
yes
no need to call it state
Ok so we got that
Do you agree even if the means of production are private , if there is heavy state intervention in the market. It would be considered socialism?
like Venezuela
Because if you look at business freedom in Venezeula, it's below repressed...
and repressed is socialist
it depends on what is being seized. If small enterprise is allowed but large enterprises are nationalized, it's more or less market socialism
depending on how they are run of course
As in theres strong state intervention
let me show you
which is not at all how Nazi Germany was run btw
Even if that's your definition of socialism
Nazi Germany was a free-enterprise driven economy
These would be capitalist
Hitler allowed businesses to do whatever they wanted to a certain point
wait we'll get there
Ok so
fascism is not anti market, it basically proposes the market to work in favour of native population rather than international investors and banks
^
Wait wait
we're not there yet
Another thing I'd like to clarrify
National socialism is not fascism
but a form of it
But here is why national socialism is a form of socialism
Yes, but it is being used as an example
Capitalism is an individualist system, that's not something anyone can argue with and since socialism is collectivist and that Nazi Germany was a collectivist movement, there's no question that Hitler was a socialist. You can't say NAZI Germany wasn't collectivist but deny that Hitler was not using a form of socialism
-All day care and education were free. High schools were taken over by the government and college tuition was subsidized. Everyone was entitled to free handouts, such as food stamps, clothing, and housing.
-The tax rates were extremely high, high as 80% I believe.
-"As Ludwig Von Mises once correctly observed, the German economy under Hitler was not capitalist at all….
What Mises identified was that private ownership of the means of production existed in name only under the Nazis and that the actual substance of ownership of the means of production resided in the German government. For it was the German government and not the nominal private owners that exercised all of the substantive powers of ownership: it, not the nominal private owners, decided what was to be produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was to be distributed, as well as what prices would be charged and what wages would be paid, and what dividends or other income the nominal private owners would be permitted to receive. The position of the alleged private owners, Mises showed, was reduced essentially to that of government pensioners.
"
-Privatisation was just in name as the state really owned the companies due to their regulation and such. The business "owners" would be told what to make, when to make and how much to make.
-Hitler Nationalised healthcare, churches, automobile industry, the press so he could control what people heard and watched.
-Hitler created trade unions such as the German Labour front.
Fascism is anti market