But moving on

Yeah, trust me. When I was a young Christian, I would practically burst into flames at the first prod at my faith. When I first became an Atheist, I was probably worse.

But yeah, anyways

Pretty much you have to look at the universe and ask is it just random or was intelligence behind it. From that point you can see you are either atheist leaning or faith leaning.

discussions about stuff like this are best viewed as us coming together to look at the problem, not defending our views from each other

Exactly

we're all just people trying to find the answers

Believing or not is never the problem

As long as one's set of beliefs doesn't lead to... you know, blowing yourself up in a crowded place or taking a joyride with a rented van... (There's a reason I said I'm quite content to live around Christians)

💯

If you cause harm to anyone due to faith as stated above you need to reevaluate your beliefs.

Well, that's just it... I must say that I also have more respect for the man who lives according to the letter of his belief system, than the moderate apologist.

Pretty much one should not harm others in order to convert

But... Suppose one's core text told one to? And suppose one had a very good reason to believe in it?

Are they harming innocent people?

Or are these people causing harm as in invading army?

Sorry, could you clarify the second sentence? I think I'm reading it wrong.

As in said people are invading the other

Military action

Oh, well in either case innocents are being hurt, yes?

Yes but one is hurting citizens and military alike the other is only attacking a peaceful populace

Well to me, either would be evil. But suppose someone had a very good reason to believe in a faith that told them to do both?

Example that applies to neither New Testament Christians nor Atheists-

Jews believe that their God has ordained in the past that it is good and right to genocide entire peoples.

The convert via sword? That’s what’s you’re asking?

It is wrong imo

Yes, it would be to a Christian like yourself.

The horrifying thing is, there are many ideologies.. popular ideologies that don't see the world through that lens.

Agree, however it does not mean all religion is bad

I never said that

and don't intend to imply it

I said ideology for a reason

Pretty much you are saying some faiths are wrong due to their belief in harming others in the name of their God. Right?

Not at all. It doesn't make them wrong at all. That an ideology tells someone to do things that are repugnant to you or I has nothing to do with whether they're right or not.

I mean there's nothing stopping a god from inciting violence and being immoral

True

so we all agree on that

Nor is there anything stopping a man from doing the same.

Communism, Islam, Judaism, National Socialism... Ultimately, there's little we can say as to whether they are 'right' or 'wrong'. We just know that they demand morally repugnant action (to myself, at least).

That is the one comforting thing about belief in an objective morality, though. At least the Christian can say "They are wrong because God said so."

An atheist who is true to him or herself has to admit that all they have ultimately is their own subjective preferences/values.

Do we want to move on or someone have something to add?

Well, my bootycall just arrived, so I gotta run. Was nice meeting y'all. Take care!

bye