Message from @campodin
Discord ID: 486238279146930177
@εïз irma εïз capital is the means of production. If you are taking it from one person and giving it to another it is being redistributed
says the commie who can't formulate a formidible counter argument and instead goes on the offensive
No, that's fruits of labor.
🤦
Look at the word. Means. Of. Production.
Basic example is a factory.
The capitalist controls the factory, not the worker.
The fruits of labor come from the factory.
Means of production =/= Capital
@εïз irma εïз how do they get the factory? First by having capitol
And?
How does this make sense at all?
I buy an apple with money. Is the apple money now?
No, it's an apple.
The factory is the MOP, the factory is not capital.
The factory is wealth
You have an extremely basic misunderstanding of the words you're using that could be rectified with a simple Google search.
Took me less than a second to Google that.
You are simply wrong.
how is money the means of production but not factories 🤔🤔🤔
I never said they weren't @ham addition
The entire dichotomy between socialism and capitalism is that in socialism the MOP (factories for example) are owned "socially" (by the workers) and in capitalism the MOP (factories) are owned by capitalists who extract surplus labor from the proletariat.
but money isn't the means of production
It literally has nothing to do with the fruits of labor being translatable to capital.
also spelling capital as capitol pisses me off
I called you an idiot for saying I said the same thing
From my perspective you were saying it was the same thing, and from your perspective you were mistaken in the words you were using which caused me to misunderstand what you were actually trying to say.
You're wrong either way.
good point
Is the owner on? <@&452955165624893451>
You're assumption that means of production is only material just shows that you know nothing about being a "capitalist"/entrepreneur. They only have what you call means of production because they have the capital (happy?). By turning capital into "means of production" you are simply turning it into real wealth. That real wealth can be directly transferred back into capital. Capital and real wealth are equivalent. That apple example you gave is a means of production, aka real wealth. It can be turned right back into capital by selling it again.
If you take capital from a wealthy person you are necessarily removing his means of production (or if you prefer potential means of production). Alternatively he could take that capital, invest it, and create more capital. Thus his capital was used to produce more capital.
Yeah but that's not what socialism is. Socialism is quite succinctly the ownership of the means of production by the workers, not the redistribution of it by capitalists OR government.
IT's the same principle as when a worker gets a paycheck. If the fruits of their labor is being distributed to them by the capitalist do they then work in a socialist system?
Of course they don't.
Dictatorship of the proletariat is a distinct concept from a welfare state, succeeding a proletariat revolution that takes over the function of the state.
Means of production is similarly a distinct concept. A welfare state has the MOP firmly in the hands of capitalists.