Message from @IV LI V S

Discord ID: 520281243640791052


2018-12-06 16:45:59 UTC  

Competition doesn't do anything

2018-12-06 16:46:01 UTC  

Because the capitalism you speak of doesn’t exist and the state isn’t a thing in capitalism

2018-12-06 16:46:02 UTC  

Yes it does

2018-12-06 16:46:08 UTC  

G2g

2018-12-06 16:46:11 UTC  

Be back in a bit

2018-12-06 16:46:13 UTC  

The state is the entirety of capitalism

2018-12-06 16:46:51 UTC  

How is it the entirety of capitalism?

2018-12-06 16:47:18 UTC  

Capitalism is a very self-looking system, bringing freedom to the individuals.

2018-12-06 16:47:37 UTC  

The state isn't of primary importance in the Capitalist System's markets.

2018-12-06 16:48:30 UTC  

Capitalism did not become engendered until the English Gentry took land from communal peasants and used a process of enclosure on it

2018-12-06 16:49:02 UTC  

Capitalism is not natural

2018-12-06 16:49:30 UTC  

No part of modern civilization is "natural"

2018-12-06 16:49:38 UTC  

^

2018-12-06 16:50:12 UTC  

Modern civilization is the result of capitalism

2018-12-06 16:50:46 UTC  

modern civilization and capitalism are the result of technological advance

2018-12-06 16:51:13 UTC  

Not true

2018-12-06 16:51:29 UTC  

True.

2018-12-06 16:51:37 UTC  

I guess that's not true then lmao

2018-12-06 16:51:47 UTC  

Naturalism doesn't let the technology evolve that fast.

2018-12-06 16:51:47 UTC  

Technological advancements in itself do not push towards capitalism

2018-12-06 16:51:54 UTC  

sure they do

2018-12-06 16:52:35 UTC  

capitalism is the most sensible way to leverage wealth, and wealth only proliferates through technological advances to production efficiency

2018-12-06 16:52:36 UTC  

there is no way to actually stop this, competition literally fails eventually as a system itself, eventually someone gets more money through whatver methods. And he then raises the bar, he can afford to give better wages, literally competition is the reason a monopoly must rise.

literally the best economies in the world also practice protectionism, those that have employed persons that is. Switzerland has seasonal tariffs and somehow people are okay with it, otherwise their farmers would literally be replaced by some company from germany or china who knows.

The moment you dont even produce your own food, your own oil you are the vassal of whatever company produces said product. Libertarianism not only fails to explain away monopolies, issues concerning the nation becoming literally a company are also not explained away, additionally the social consequences. There is a fine line to walk and libertarianism essentially abandones the rules in favor of such basic and ambiguous rules that anything can happen including monopolies, the law of competition mandates it.

Rather when there is a set of rules and set of methods by which welath actually flows constantly and prevents pooling, libertarianism isnt this system but rather a system of the buisnussman. We need something that limits certain things, such as how many X more a CEO makes than the person on the floor. Ironically the era of major growth in germany etc. had these inds of laws, the moment they were removed in favor of loosening up the economy things went to shit. And ever since the wages have spiraled downwards. (not to mention libertarianism opens the perfect oppertunity for corrupting govorment and gaining competetive advantage... there is nothing in libertarianism preventing this).

2018-12-06 16:52:42 UTC  

jesus

2018-12-06 16:53:25 UTC  

Advancements in power, electrical and productive, turns toward planning and a national centralization of economic affairs

2018-12-06 16:53:34 UTC  

Not quite capitalist

2018-12-06 16:53:35 UTC  

I agree, I'm not a libertarian @Bogatyr Bogumir

2018-12-06 16:54:27 UTC  

@el pebble you are right that capitalism requires the deliberate support of the state through contract enforcement and other enabling laws

2018-12-06 16:54:49 UTC  

but it is no more artificial than any other government support economic system

2018-12-06 16:55:15 UTC  

it's just a decentralized approach

2018-12-06 16:56:09 UTC  

It's the epitome of artificial

2018-12-06 16:57:02 UTC  

The ability for one to claim the piece of a world for profit and exploit values of labor through the primacy of wage labor has never been natural

2018-12-06 16:57:05 UTC  

@IV LI V S Its more an argument towards sidisnothere, I am not for absolute control or centralised economics however I am also absulutely against libertarian economics as it is antithetical to nationalis in every way.

there is a middle ground to walk and that middle ground ironically favors a more stable and I guess more libertarian reality than libertarians can produce with libertarianism.

2018-12-06 16:57:44 UTC  

yeah I'm pretty much there myself

2018-12-06 16:57:50 UTC  

id rather not live in a company (this is already present in the middle east where workers simply get paid almost nothing since many companies have risen in a vaccume of lack of intervention, creating company cities. And its dystopian)

2018-12-06 16:57:57 UTC  

exactly!

2018-12-06 16:58:53 UTC  

a government at least has a duty to benefit its people

2018-12-06 16:59:09 UTC  

The government should be the people

2018-12-06 16:59:15 UTC  

even if it only honors that duty a little bit, it's favorable to living under a corporate state

2018-12-06 16:59:30 UTC  

The government should indeed be the people.

2018-12-06 16:59:59 UTC  

are you sure you aren't idealizing the virtues of the masses