Message from @The Enlightened Shepherd

Discord ID: 316326984026161152


2017-05-22 21:21:34 UTC  

but again, refusing to ascribe to it the "ultimate meaning"

2017-05-22 21:21:55 UTC  

you can parse the word freedom however you want. I'm only talking about it in the colloquial sense of choices available to an individual

2017-05-22 21:22:53 UTC  

The leftist use freedom in the sense of being free from obligations/dutys while still getting the benefits

2017-05-22 21:23:07 UTC  

Yeah

2017-05-22 21:23:11 UTC  

i . e. Freedom from Duty

2017-05-22 21:23:32 UTC  

but the rightists will argue that More Choices = More Freedom

2017-05-22 21:23:47 UTC  

and that's what I'm objecting to

2017-05-22 21:24:03 UTC  

One must not under any circumstance give choices any inherent value

2017-05-22 21:24:25 UTC  

I've agreed with you this entire time @The Enlightened Shepherd

2017-05-22 21:24:51 UTC  

Other than allowing choices where choice fulfills a desired function

2017-05-22 21:25:23 UTC  

For example, pattern of making bad choices when given option, can be used to realize that an individual is a danger to himself and therefore to he group

2017-05-22 21:26:12 UTC  

Every higher power wants to limit the choices of it's subordinates, this is the basic law

2017-05-22 21:26:48 UTC  

The higher the power, the more choices and the greater the need for a "purpose" which will serve as a guiding light

2017-05-22 21:27:04 UTC  

Since multiplicity of choices always brings existential crisis of a sort

2017-05-22 21:27:08 UTC  

It's usually in peoples own interest. i limit my own choices because I am unhappy if I face endless meaningless choices

2017-05-22 21:27:46 UTC  

Same here

2017-05-22 21:27:48 UTC  

Freedom has naturally certain restrictions namely the physical ones obviously, but also other human beings have a natural genetically imprinted sense of justice, they realise when costs are externalized on them and will try to retaliate against you so those are natural limits to your behaviour too

2017-05-22 21:28:10 UTC  

I deleted some dozen plugins because I could spend days trying to figure out which instrument to use when making music

2017-05-22 21:28:25 UTC  

Limiting your options is a powerful strategy in modern times

2017-05-22 21:30:19 UTC  

"but also other human beings have a natural genetically imprinted sense of justice" most peoples sense of justice is their greater capability to abstractly conceive things, which results in them using themselves as a reference

2017-05-22 21:30:30 UTC  

these are the sort of people with whom you can have "good things"

2017-05-22 21:30:41 UTC  

Absolutely. Some clinical research also supports the notion that limited choices and limited resources also result in greater creativity and problem solving ability.

2017-05-22 21:30:45 UTC  

This does not apply to most

2017-05-22 21:31:46 UTC  

Presentation of choice and presentation of information is a major issue in policy discussions too.

2017-05-22 21:33:04 UTC  

Behind every choice in modern public dealings, lies some sort of tyrany

2017-05-22 21:33:05 UTC  

The Good effect of limited choices can really be seen within art, if you restrict the tools and the styles that one can use one has it offers a kind of tool to compare and assess artpieces based on the characters one has defined within such a framework

2017-05-22 21:33:37 UTC  

In modernity, choice itself is tyranny, becase bad choices prevail

2017-05-22 21:33:51 UTC  

Limitation of choice is freedom

2017-05-22 21:33:59 UTC  

and self-limitation the fullest freedom

2017-05-22 21:36:58 UTC  

Self-limitation is utilitarianism

2017-05-22 21:37:08 UTC  

Freedom is non-utilitarian, meaning, unconditional

2017-05-22 21:37:19 UTC  

It's free from every purpose and direction

2017-05-22 21:37:28 UTC  

This is of course, from purely philosophical point of view

2017-05-22 21:38:24 UTC  

From point of view of practicality, self-limitation can yield superior results where abundance of choices creates a sense of a lack of direction

2017-05-22 22:04:04 UTC  

This reminded me of James J. Frazer's book, the golden bough

2017-05-22 22:04:21 UTC  

One of the most famous sources for "evolutionary" study of religion

2017-05-22 22:04:53 UTC  

Which nevertheless, willingly or not, was quite of a source for getting genuinely interested in spiritual matters

2017-05-22 22:08:58 UTC  

In exposing obviously, the central part that mortality plays in every kind of cult (though not making differentiations other than in the method of association) it's stunning how it didnt provide foundation to keep contemplating on the issue, but merely to remain confident in "rationality" which simply acknowledges death, but does not ponder

2017-05-22 22:09:03 UTC  

Golden Bough is excellent. Good primer for lots of Joseph Campbell's work. Reading article now.

2017-05-22 22:09:56 UTC  

What in science stands for "overcoming your insticts" in spiritual exploration can stand for the same kind of progress, but which does not lead towards conclusion that science suffices