And I've answered his question

It’s the other way around

how does the material of the statue change the meaning lol?

Hold on a minute now

You've argued against interpretation this entire time

And now you're saying that the material doesn't matter

When that verse says silver

You argue literalism, fine

Wait what are you on about

My point is: you're doing interpretation right fucking now

Yes I do, and you are literally in violation of kneeling before idols. You make gods and goddesses of your Saints and of Mary.

They are neither gods or goddesses

Holy people, who accomplished miracles? Yes

Kneeling before idols to own the pagans

And they should be seen as standards and examples of what we should do for the faith

Just because that specific verse said silver doesn't mean that the meaning would be different if it said the statue was ceramic. That's a completely different way of interpreting something "literally"

And there's a HUGE HUGE difference between interpreting something literally, and just plainly adding things that were never there to begin with. Show me where the Bible says to kneel before statues, to make icons of saints, and to revere mortal men and women as if they were more than what they are

because those are things the catholic faith is guilty of

Well, when you expunge the Catholic Church from the world, be sure to call me

“It’s fucked, might as well accepts the lies and idols and bullshit”

Hardly what I said, but if that helps you sleep at night, sure

It doesn’t, I want intellectual honesty, and this conversation is lacking in it

I'm being perfectly honest. But you're not the person I had the discussion with

So your particular opinion means fuck all

Lmao

So touchy

"Well, when you expunge the Catholic Church from the world, be sure to call me" My friend, that isn't my point. As much as I'd love to be rid of Catholicism, paganism, and everything else in between, it's more than likely not gonna happen by the hands of mere men. However, that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be informed of the church's wrongdoings and of its lies. This world will be full of sin no matter what, until the Messiah returns. That's no reason to just give up and let people fall. But hey, if you want to continue your ways then by all means, continue. I beseech you to abandon the catholic church, but there's truthfully nothing I can do to stop you. Adios, amigo
Psalm 81:12
"So I gave them over to their stubborn hearts to follow their own devices."

I will continue following the faith in the way I was taught and in keeping with the correct doctrines, yes.

@Al_Bi I appreciate your point and commend you on your study of scripture but I have to disagree with you re the Virgin Mary and sainthood. Venerating the Virgin Mary is a practice very specific to Jesuit congregations and is really only commonplace amongst Hispanic and Southeast Asian diocese, almost never amongst European or white American Catholics. The official Catechism is pretty clear that Mary was "annointed in the Holy Spirit" and is not herself intrinsically divine. As for sainthood, canonization is an affirmation of faith and worship of saints is explicitly prohibited.

In terms of your citing Catholic reference to Mary as "Mother of God" I think you misinterpret that if taken literally or at its face. While Mary is physically the mother of Jesus, in the Catholic faith Jesus is seen as sharing God's primordial nature, and while Jesus was physically made manifest by Mary he is as eternal as God - hence the term "begotten not made, consubstantial with the father".

@Matt w/ AFM I can certainly see where you’re coming from, and you seem to come from a Catholic background if I’m not mistaken. However this doesn’t exactly change the fact that you’ll clearly find the presence of statues and figurines of Mary and the Saints in many American and European Catholic churches today. How would you rationalize this as something other than idolatry, given the fact that the scripture clearly defines this, among other practices, as idolatry?

**Matt w/AFM** is typing... <:monkaS:401226193296424960>

@Al_Bi I think you have to contextualize the prohibition of idol worship, which was during a time at which most of the western world was either Pagan or otherwise polytheistic. "Idols" refer primarily to the Pagan idols which were at the time seen less as Gods in the Christian sense but as sort of a superstitious symbol. You see the same thing in Islam, where Mohammed's first act after capturing Mecca is to destroy the idols of the regional tribes in the Kaaba. Canonizing or depicting holy people - especially martyrs, dates back to the origin of Christianity and is not, in my opinion, tantamount to idol worship

Smol Al is typing

@Matt w/ AFM Ah, you make a pretty valid point there. I’ll have to do a bit more research since it seems as though I’m not seeing the full scope of things in the way you are. Although it is important to note that scripture doesn’t mention anywhere, at all, as far as my knowledge goes that mere men and women are deserving of such reverence, whether they be “holy” or not. That and this idea of intercession and how people feel compelled to have Mary, for example, pray on their behalf. It just seems to me as though it detracts from God, and minimizes the sacrifice that He made for us. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen and heard instances of Catholics calling upon **Mary** to deliver them from evil rather than the Lord. And the supposed infallibility of the Pope that seems to be apart of the catholic faith is another thing that I see as absolutely unacceptable. And verses such as Romans 3:10 only affirm my position on that

@Al_Bi I will definitely concede that the Bible in no way mentions canonization, that practice didn't take hold until the 900s. As for intercession, that's really a matter of faith and if you feel it detracts from God than there's not much I can do to change your mind. As for the Pope, his infallibility was originally intended as a means to discredit false prophets which were EXTREMELY prevalent in the hundred years after Christ's death (Arians, Montanists, Artotyrites, etc) and ensure future generations would not follow their heresies. That said, I think that's definitely come around to bite us on the ass in modernity.

Am I correct to assume that you're Lutheran?

@Matt w/ AFM Thanks for the explanations, I actually really appreciate hearing them from someone like yourself. But again, I’ll definitely have to look more into this.

And no, I’m not explicitly Lutheran. I agree with some Lutheran ideas, but I haven’t looked into the sect quite enough yet to say that I stand with them. At the moment I am non-denominational, and I might stay that way if I find any Biblical reason to devote myself to one particular section of Christianity. I could very well be wrong in this belief, but the way I see it there’s no real need to bind yourself to a specific denomination as I don’t think it’s something that you need to simply follow the teachings of Christ and the Bible. But again, I could just be naive and missing something for holding that stance

Low IQ post but, why does a desert book matter THIS much?

<:brainlet:385713689539641344> @DCS

It's nice to see someone able to spend the time arguing the points about catholicism lol

@DCS Cause we think it helps provide the wisdom and truth to everlasting life 🙏